Dec. 22 Press Conference

[staubio]

And after a rehab of the K it just might land in the top 5.

If you have accepted that we shouldn't rehab the K then why should we rehab Arrowhead?  They are the same age and roughly the same condition.  Why not build a new football stadium with a retractable roof for a Super Bowl?

That question has been addressed a ton of times.  Please, akp, stop presenting counter-arguments just to keep arguing.  The rationale has been posted.  Go read.

[aknowledgeableperson]

And you keep harping on a DT stadium that has gone over like a lead balloon.  So give up and stop presenting your counter-arguments.

[skim82]

i am actually logging in from their house now and all...........

the reality of it is we built 2 great parks. they have bad location. arrowhead is far superior to a lot of newer football stadiums, and same with kauffman.

those of you, the majority here, just need to accept it as fact that you are in the minority. i wanted kc to save the downtown jones store, and revamp it as a macy's or nieman marcus, or anything, ditto with the old dillards, but i was in the minority.

my affection for the tsc has nothing to do with family working there. all that does is get me discounted food when i am there. the location is shitty, i agree. but building it downtown gives no gurantee it helps downtown, none. i live in pittsburgh, and i can tell you building pnc and heinz, which are nice facilities, did nothing for their urban core, particularly the life of the neighborhood. my wife and i dine at the pnc outback, which is built in thier stadium, once a month. and it is always 3/4 empty. an outback, those places are always busy. same with the twist, an upscale martini bar built near the stadiums, we have been 4 times, and never anyone there. when we went to pirates, steelers, and panthers games, yes, you had lots of people downtown those days. but much like the tsc, they bolt when it is over, they do not hang out.

a lot of you on this board have this illusion of grandure that building kauffman in the north loop will suddenly bring downtown to life because there will be 17k milling around 81 days a year. it will stay dead near the ballparks the same way it does near blue ridge cutoff now. they will bolt after the games, without going to all of these places of business nearby. trust me, i went to cleveland and baltimore games, new stadiums, in revitalized downtowns, everyone gets the fuck away after it is over, and kc will be no different.

you guys need to accept as fact it is dead, a april defeat will only solidify one thing.............that they are still locked up til 2014, that is a long was away, and the chance of defeat is slim at best, jacko voters vote yes on civic improvements ALL of the time. and they will for this too.

i am the voice of reason here, and keep on hatin' for it. that is fine. mkb has a lot of spine, she is the mayor helping to lead the p&l charge, sprint center, same with our county leaders, they are all for the future of downtown. absolutely none of them are for losing two gems, and that is what they are. all during the chiefs chargers game, all i hear the announcers say, well, 4 times, is how magnificent they both are. and i also heard them say that the voters of the kc area "will get a chance to vote for massive improvements at these marvelous stadiums come april, i do not see how they can vote no!"

so, yeah, i have people on the national side, local goverment, city goverment, county goverment, and state goverment, saying keep kauffman and arrowhead, and there are a couple of hundred on here, well, more like 30 or so, that are gung ho on this. so, yeah, i am on the losing side because my mother tears tickets at both parks.

Chef,

I'm not trying to bait you, but you're totally off base, and don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Let's get one thing straight here, there is no MAJORITY anything right now.  No one has voted for the tax increase, and the situation is still up in the air. Also, Pittsburgh's baseball stadium is across the river from the CBD if I'm not mistaken.  The fact is, don't give us crap about "this won't work here" b/c YOU don't know.  For every time you say shit like that, I can bring up another city where it is a raging success.. The fact is you can't argue with the numbers... 15 of the last 17 MLB ballparks were built DT.  You wanna know why?  Because Kansas City generates 25% of its tax revenue from that are we call DT and the CBD.  DT is vital to our city.  Especially because of the continual suburban sprawl that is occurring here and every other American city. 

Also, who the hell cares if people don't stick around AFTER the games?  It's before the games that count.... It's the H&R block rep who takes his Yankees client out for dinner and a ballgame on a friday night after closing a multi-million dollar account.  DT, just like KCI is the doormat to our city.  No one is saying that a DT baseball stadium in the North Loop will generate a Wrigley Field experience... However, you can't argue with the INVESTMENT that this is for our fair city...

Please stop calling them GEMS... They're not anything close to GEMS.. for someone who lives in larger more progressive but stagnant cities, you seem to have a narrow perspective of things.. You almost rationalize your decisions like someone who lives in Dodge City and thinks that their DT tourist area is a "Gem".  I will be willing to argue that no one on this forum drives a car over 30 years old on a daily basis, and there is no reason why we should throw away a bunch of money on two old BUILDINGS. 

That's my take, again, not trying to bait you... but this is how it is...

[aknowledgeableperson]

Please stop calling them GEMS... They're not anything close to GEMS.. for someone who lives in larger more progressive but stagnant cities, you seem to have a narrow perspective of things.. You almost rationalize your decisions like someone who lives in Dodge City and thinks that their DT tourist area is a "Gem".  I will be willing to argue that no one on this forum drives a car over 30 years old on a daily basis, and there is no reason why we should throw away a bunch of money on two old BUILDINGS. 

Let's see.  How many TIF projects or tax abatement projects have there been on buildings older than 30 years in KC?  According to your logic above these "old buildings" should have been torn down and replaced with new ones.  New ones that have more, modern space that could provide more places to live or work or play.  So for now on no more tax money on 30 year old buildings.

[staubio]

And you keep harping on a DT stadium that has gone over like a lead balloon.  So give up and stop presenting your counter-arguments.

I did, but not because it is dead... because it's been said.

[bahua]

goatse!

[skim82]

Let's see. How many TIF projects or tax abatement projects have there been on buildings older than 30 years in KC? According to your logic above these "old buildings" should have been torn down and replaced with new ones. New ones that have more, modern space that could provide more places to live or work or play. So for now on no more tax money on 30 year old buildings.

Giving TIF or tax abatements to older structures in our downtown core that need to either be demolished or are a "eye sore" is different than replacing (2) 30 year old stadiums.  First of all, the city of KCMO might give developers an incentive to build and replinish the core, but they are not directly responsible for the upkeep and maintenance on the buildings. 

Also, residents of JaCo are not directly being asked to help pay for these renovations...  I hope you can see the difference.  BTW are you for or against a DT ballpark? 

[kcdcchef]

Let's get one thing straight here, there is no MAJORITY anything right now.  

sure there is. it is called the majority that counts. the mayor, the city counil, the county officials, the ownership of both teams, the local newspaper, and the talk radio with the largest audience ( 980 ). that is the majority. your side has you, 30 or so from the forum, and kietz, who professes to love going to games at kauffman. further, the ownership of the royals made it abundently clear that the royals offices have been overwhelmed with responses saying they love kauffman, and want to keep it.

Please stop calling them GEMS... They're not anything close to GEMS.. 

ok, i will not call them gems. i will let fox, espn, wgn, tbs, oriole network, yankee vision, and a whole gaggle of others, along with ballparks.com, espn.com, and si.com, say it. but, i will not. no prob.

  15 of the last 17 MLB ballparks were built DT. 

because they were replacing ones built downtown skim. they were replacing ballparks already built downtown. we fucked up in the 60's and built these in no mans land. but no point destroying something great, to prove a point.

i drove by these parks this morning on my way back to kci, and all i can say is, thank god they are going nowhere, thank god the good people of jackson county will vote yes on april 4th, to keeping the royals and chiefs where they belong, for decades to come no less.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Giving TIF or tax abatements to older structures in our downtown core that need to either be demolished or are a "eye sore" is different than replacing (2) 30 year old stadiums.  First of all, the city of KCMO might give developers an incentive to build and replinish the core, but they are not directly responsible for the upkeep and maintenance on the buildings. No they don't, but since the project does not generate enough revenue the city has to dip into its coffers and pay off the bonds for the project.  And some of these projects are for buildings to be rehabbed that are quite a bit older than 30 years.

Also, residents of JaCo are not directly being asked to help pay for these renovations...  I hope you can see the difference.  BTW are you for or against a DT ballpark? But if there is tax abatement they don't receive any taxes from the property.

I am against a DT ballpark.  Why take another four, six, or eight blocks off of the tax rolls?  Why build a ball park that sits vacant over 3/4ths of the time when you could have buildings, old or new, there that generate more traffic?  Why spend more money for something new when for less money you can update something that has history, something that many others want to keep, something that many see as they travel a highway into or out of KC, etc.

P.S.
Yeah, the DTC had in its plan the taxpayers paying the same cost but that was a dream.  First, the state will not let A&E taxes go to construction.  Second, you will not be able to build a new stadium for $360 million in current dollars, let alone with future dollars.

[KCPowercat]

FYI to Chef, the announcers are fed lines to say about the city.  Every announcer that comes to KC hasn't seen the plaza or eaten BBQ.  Big shocker I know.

On this issue.....we can't do much if the team isn't willing to put up some funds....now I do wish our leadership was  bit stronger to stand up and say "THIS is what we are doing"....of course they would have to keep an open mind and at least listen to the proposal.  That's what irks me more than anything.  They won't let the people decide what they think should be done with their money.

Don't give me these "polls" they have published.  Let us hear the question to those polls and we will decide their validity.

[beautyfromashes]

Hey chef- How about a little wager on this little tax proposal?  It doesn't pass, as you seem so confident it will, you never come on this board again.  It passes, then I'll claim your brilliance and never post again.

[kcdcchef]

Hey chef- How about a little wager on this little tax proposal?  It doesn't pass, as you seem so confident it will, you never come on this board again.  It passes, then I'll claim your brilliance and never post again.

or how bout when it passes you do society a favor and get sterilization.

FYI to Chef, the announcers are fed lines to say about the city. Every announcer that comes to KC hasn't seen the plaza or eaten BBQ. 

i have seen my fair share of announcers reading blindly about the famous country club plaza, it is funny. but sorry to say, i watched hundreds of royals games as a kid, with denny trease doing the broadcast on channel 4, and i can tell you, all those trips to the kingdome, memorial stadium, old commie, metrodome, tiger, all that crap, you never heard denny trease going on and on about them.

or when i watched tbs, and you never heard their announcers talking up 3 rivers, the vet, shea, olympic, and all those dumps. same with wgn. but when wgn covered a sox game at kauffman, or when the royals were the shit and you would watch a local game on tv at a bar in westport, which, 17-18 years ago was a big fucken deal, you would hear baltimore, minnesotta, oakland, anaheim, various announcers comment on how great it is.

you want a poll  ..................go out off this board, this is a kc development board, that is ever so slightly tilted towards downtown, go on some random sports discussion group, call into a national call in sports show ( i know i have ) anywhere beyond kcskyscrapers.com, and ask the views and opinions on kauffman, and whether or not it is a good idea to abandon it. you and i both know what you will hear.

Yeah, the DTC had in its plan the taxpayers paying the same cost but that was a dream. First, the state will not let A&E taxes go to construction. Second, you will not be able to build a new stadium for $360 million in current dollars, let alone with future dollars.

akp - the dtc plan was as well thought out as the number of lifeboats on the titanic. sorry, just fact.

[beautyfromashes]

I figured you wouldn't be man enough to put your money where your considerable mouth is.  Blowhard.

[kcdcchef]

I figured you wouldn't be man enough to put your money where your considerable mouth is.  Blowhard.

blow it out your ass. this is a forum. i will be here whenever i want to, so you can go to hell.

however, since we all know it will pass, i will be happy to wager with you on this one. when they unveil the specifics of the package, which, they have not, i will bet with you if i like the proposal. meaning mr. buttwipe, if when they show the renderings of the redone kauffman and arrowhead, and show how the money will be spent specifically, if it looks like the skeleton i am seeing now, i will be happy to take that bet.

[bahua]

No reason to stop being a lady, chef.

[staubio]

you want a poll  ..................go out off this board, this is a kc development board, that is ever so slightly tilted towards downtown, go on some random sports discussion group, call into a national call in sports show ( i know i have ) anywhere beyond kcskyscrapers.com, and ask the views and opinions on kauffman, and whether or not it is a good idea to abandon it. you and i both know what you will hear.

I don't take a poll of the country to decide what your personal investment portfolio should consist of, do I?  That is the point.  I don't care if Kauffman is declared a great place to watch a game -- it is a horrible investment for the tax dollars of the people of Jackson County.  We get virtually NO return.  The debate is not, and never has been, the quality of the experience at Kauffman, so I don't know why you dwell on it continuously. 

Yes, Kauffman is a great baseball venue, but it is also one that requires a large amount of investment that amounts to a throw-away of sorts -- a continuation of an idea that has proven to be ineffective. 

Arm your polling sample with some facts and I'm confident you wouldn't get the support you are so confident you would.  On the simple surface, yes, Kauffman is delightful, but if one is to think to any degree beyond that, it doesn't make sense.

[TheNorthlander]

i will be happy to wager with you on this one. when they unveil the specifics of the package,

This is fairly safe position.  Since they never released any specifics for Bi-State, why will they now?

I would venture that there will be no specifics shown, just some pie-in-the-sky "concept" drawings.  If the tax passes, those drawings will get quickly tossed and the reason will be is that they were just "conceptual".

[beautyfromashes]

This is fairly safe position.  Since they never released any specifics for Bi-State, why will they now?

I would venture that there will be no specifics shown, just some pie-in-the-sky "concept" drawings.  If the tax passes, those drawings will get quickly tossed and the reason will be is that they were just "conceptual".

Yeah, but what idiots would vote for a tax increase and not even have specifics of what you would be receiving?

[skim82]

I wasn't trying to bait anyone... but it just pisses me off when people get on this forum and act like that the best that KANSAS CITY can do is rehab (2) 30+year old stadiums.  I'm afraid that a newbie lurker might actually believe what Chef and so called unacknowledgable person has to say on this issue.

[kcdcchef]

I wasn't trying to bait anyone... but it just pisses me off when people get on this forum and act like that the best that KANSAS CITY can do is rehab (2) 30+year old stadiums.  I'm afraid that a newbie lurker might actually believe what Chef and so called unacknowledgable person has to say on this issue.

skim

for the record, i know you were not trying to bait me. you have your stance, i have mine. they are both sides that will get argued to the ground in this forum, but you have to admit, they will not get argued outside it.

This is fairly safe position. Since they never released any specifics for Bi-State, why will they now?

I would venture that there will be no specifics shown, just some pie-in-the-sky "concept" drawings. If the tax passes, those drawings will get quickly tossed and the reason will be is that they were just "conceptual".

bi state II had the worst drawings i had ever seen. this time, i have yet to see a conceptual drawing, and am wondering if jackson county will vote yes again. i mean, in bistate II, jackson county was the one county that carried it. so, if they even do as good a job as the last time, which, was not a good job, it will pass. and with better drawings, it will pass. because, so far, the specifics on numbers are looking legit. not last time, because there were none. this time we are hearing how much on the concourses, hall of fames for both stadiums, stuff like that. all we heard last time, was probably the stadium club getting relocated at kauffman, and probably new concessions in the ramps, this time at least, we are getting some numbers.