KCRag Forum

Michael® wrote: yeah toss is a real comedian 

You have to tilt your foil hat a bit to catch the nuance.

Central Ave. in KCK during the 1920's and the holiday shopping season.

KCK wrote:

Central Ave. in KCK during the 1920's and the holiday shopping season.

nice streetcar!

And people thought autos were a recent addition to the scene.  Looks like the city has catered to them for at least 80 years.  And during most of that time downtown was hopping.

Maybe the auto may have had a part, a small part, in the decline of the urban area but there are many other factors in the equation, and they have a greater impact than the auto.

With on-street parking AKP, on-street parking. There's quite a difference between on-street parking and the craven sordidity of the surface lots that came later.

I never blamed the car for urban decline. I blame stereotypes, and people running from problems rather than trying to fix them.

aknowledgeableperson wrote: And people thought autos were a recent addition to the scene.  Looks like the city has catered to them for at least 80 years.  And during most of that time downtown was hopping.

Maybe the auto may have had a part, a small part, in the decline of the urban area but there are many other factors in the equation, and they have a greater impact than the auto.

That photo is long before we really started catering to the car.  Do you see any freeway entrances in that picture?  Somehow I imagine that none of those businesses needed to worry about zoning requirements demanding that they install private parking spots based on their square footage either. 

aknowledgeableperson wrote: And people thought autos were a recent addition to the scene.  Looks like the city has catered to them for at least 80 years.  And during most of that time downtown was hopping.

Maybe the auto may have had a part, a small part, in the decline of the urban area but there are many other factors in the equation, and they have a greater impact than the auto.

This is a bit of a silly question because its absolutely rhetorical.  Had the auto not ever been invented, US cities would look very different than they do today and, indeed, the downtown areas would be the center of all activity like they are in Europe.  It would have to be this way as people would need to live in a denser setting because they must rely on public transport and the huge swaths of auto-related parking lots, highways etc....would not be there. 

Getting back to reality.  The auto provided only the means for people of KC to abandon downtown.....not necassarily the impetus.  Nonetheless, I believe that impetus was provided by several auto-related creations....the rise of the suburb and subsequent rise of suburban office parks so people could work closer to where they lived.  The advent of forced bussing which pushed people in huge numbers into suburban communities during the 60's.  And the tendency for other types of commercial activity to follow demographic changes (retail and entertainment) and eventually the jobs. 

Tosspot wrote: With on-street parking AKP, on-street parking. There's quite a difference between on-street parking and the craven sordidity of the surface lots that came later.

Don't forget all of the parking garages that were DT at that time.  There were many with some still standing.  Even back then we were an auto society for the most part.

Highlander wrote: This is a bit of a silly question because its absolutely rhetorical.  Had the auto not ever been invented, US cities would look very different than they do today and, indeed, the downtown areas would be the center of all activity like they are in Europe.  It would have to be this way as people would need to live in a denser setting because they must rely on public transport and the huge swaths of auto-related parking lots, highways etc....would not be there. 

Getting back to reality.  The auto provided only the means for people of KC to abandon downtown.....not necassarily the impetus.  Nonetheless, I believe that impetus was provided by several auto-related creations....the rise of the suburb and subsequent rise of suburban office parks so people could work closer to where they lived.  The advent of forced bussing which pushed people in huge numbers into suburban communities during the 60's.  And the tendency for other types of commercial activity to follow demographic changes (retail and entertainment) and eventually the jobs. 

If the auto had not been invented we probably would not have trucks either, or buses.  Public transportation would be horse driven or cable car.  And we still might be mostly a farm life society.  So forget about the invention of the auto, we have it and will always have it.
The rise of the suburbs has more to do with changes in society than what you mentioned.  And our society has changed more than that in most of Europe.  Don't forget, most downtowns, along with some countrysides, on continental Europe were heavily destroyed during the war.

During WW II this nation had a huge housing shortage, especially in the cities.  Many single family houses were divided (zoning laws ignored) to provide the needed housing.  Almost all construction went to the war effort, hardly any to the civilians or their needs.  After the war the soldiers came home with the GI Bill.  Not only did it pay for college (to help create a larger middle class) but also provided for housing loans.  Also many southern blacks left home for the jobs in the cities up north.  During the war many women also left the countryside for factory jobs in the city and stayed in the city.
Many houses had to be built to satisfy the above (believe the first suburban type subdivision after the war was Levittown).  And with the rise of the suburbs jobs and shopping started to move to where the people lived (for many reasons - one would be to get out of a DT that was not reinvented or rebuilt like in Europe). Then the population and jobs started moving to the west and south and cities in those areas grew while the cities in the NE lost population and the money that goes with the people who move.

  Thats not Central Ave, its Minnesota Ave.

Don't understand posters covering for the automotive and petrochemical industries' complicity in America's de-urbanization.  Culture, post-WWII has been about dismantling the prior century.  Pardon the syntax, English is second language.   

Denver Josh wrote: Great idea KCP-

The copyright from each photo posted on this thread has run out (many, many years ago).  If the Library owns the negatives, theoretically one could produce such a business allowed that the library released the negatives to be copied.  If not for starting a business, anyone in the city could take the old photos and get 'em blown up for personal use without hinderance of copyright infringement.  Copyrights on MOST "art" (music-movies-photographs) do not apply after 50-100 years (unless you're Disney and you pitch a fit).  Yeah I know, copyright law isn't that simple but nobody is going to make claims to a photograph pre 1920.

I want a big picture....

I do a bit of photo collecting, so I have a good portion of these photos "fixed up" and archived digitally.  If you have one in mind that you like, I can see if I have it, and put it up somewhere so you can grab it.  Then, you could print it at Kinkos or something.

The Conklin House at 1207 Pennsylvania Street (next to Cordova Hotel).

Don't forget to scroll over to the right to see entire photo.





The Conklin House shown with neighboring buildings on the east side of Pennsylvania near W. 12th Street.

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The Eads Water Company Building at 415 W. 10th occupied the site immediately west of Tanners.  Townhouses, built as part of the Quality Hill redevelopment project, are there now.



Elenora Lehman Boarding House, 1013-1015 Washington Street, next to the Progress Club Building (YMCA).

The Fredric Hotel on the north side of E. 9th between Oak and McGee.

Scroll right to see the entire photo.





I love this photo of the Fredric Hotel lobby. Note the use of old airplane seating. 

what collection is that part of?  Looks like they've added some cool stuff since last time i checked the American Memory section of the Library of Congress website (rebrowsing through it just now shows a bunch of stuff i hadn't seen before... or maybe it's just been a while)

The D. M. Jarboe Residence, 517 West Tenth Street, on Quality Hill.

Scroll right to see entire photo.

KansasCityCraka wrote: HAHAHAHAHA the date on the first 2 pictures are February 1923 but how is their a Late 1980's-Early 1990's camaro in the second picture?

I think the date on the photo reflects the year the building was constructed.

I love the Fredric Hotel because it's long, tall, and skinny. I hate that they tore it down.

HAHAHAHAHA the date on the first 2 pictures are February 1923 but how is their a Late 1980's-Early 1990's camaro in the second picture?