KCRag Forum

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:26 pm**

I greatly dislike PVP and think it's a huge waste of space. Rip it out and put in some mixed-used development.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:32 pm**

Kard wrote: I greatly dislike PVP and think it's a huge waste of space. Rip it out and put in some mixed-used development.

I agree

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:41 pm**

Kard wrote: I greatly dislike PVP and think it's a huge waste of space. Rip it out and put in some mixed-used development.

I'd be okay with that. An aquarium might work, although I'd rather see that on the Riverfront.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:45 pm**

here here. they need to carve out a more useful, neighborhood park out of the wasted space, and line the park with a semi-dense dense, mixed use neighborhood. now.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:47 pm**

warwickland wrote: here here. they need to carve out a more useful, neighborhood park out of the wasted space, and line the park with a semi-dense, mixed use neighborhood. now.

yep.

any estimates on how likely that would be?

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:57 pm**

chrizow wrote: any estimates on how likely that would be?

Considering the so-called "park" has been around since the city inception...not likely.

I'm not saying the urban core doesn't need a place to play--it does. But PVP is so unusable as a park it's insulting.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:59 pm**

i concur...and think of the views from a townhomes or apartment perched atop the hills in PVP!

we on this board have all the vision! and none of the power or money!

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:27 pm**

No matter how good an idea you have, unless the park board approves it, or a city wide election is held, it'll never happen. And dont' bet on the park board doing anything remotely constructive. After all, their stewardship of KC parks, and most notably, the Liberty Memorial, has been less than steller.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:45 pm**

A ballot initiative to auction off the park land to developers would probably be the only way move it. But I can't see a grassroots effort getting that done. There would need to be money behind it and as Mr Zow points out:

chrizow wrote:we on this board have all the vision! and none of the power or money!

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:45 pm**

Penn Valley Park is a testament to the old Kansas City Parks and boulevard system. For the people of old Kansas City to reserve such a large part of the urban core for green space is impressive and intelligent with regards to urban planning. This buffer between downtown and Mid-town is really a symbol of the Mid-west's obsession with wide open spaces.

I know she has fallen into the darkness of the city's infrastructure cuts of the 80's and 90's. However I see an opportunity in the near future to resurrect her and carve her into one of the great jewels of Kansas City.

I have a plan to accomplish just that. It will take time and a lot of effort but, I am hoping several companies and public officials are ready to work together to give new life back to Penn Valley Park. This plan should be able to please everyone from every sector, from Government officials to historians and private interest.

Just imagine watching your kids play a little league game with the Kansas City skyline as a backdrop. Just imagine spending a quiet afternoon on a park bench reading as the city passes by. Just imagine playing a tennis match on your lunch hour. Just imagine a tribute to the soldiers who fell in World War I, so moving it represents each one of them individually. Just imagine skipping out of the office early to go fishing in the heart of the city. Just imagine taking a sunset stroll through the lively and welcoming 175 acres of beautifully manicured lawns and gardens. Just Imagine....

I don't just imagine. I know it will be so.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:34 pm**

thedream wrote: Penn Valley Park is a testament to the old Kansas City Parks and boulevard system. For the people of old Kansas City to reserve such a large part of the urban core for green space is impressive and intelligent with regards to urban planning. This buffer between downtown and Mid-town is really a symbol of the Mid-west's obsession with wide open spaces.

I know she has fallen into the darkness of the city's infrastructure cuts of the 80's and 90's. However I see an opportunity in the near future to resurrect her and carve her into one of the great jewels of Kansas City.

I have a plan to accomplish just that. It will take time and a lot of effort but, I am hoping several companies and public officials are ready to work together to give new life back to Penn Valley Park. This plan should be able to please everyone from every sector, from Government officials to historians and private interest.

Just imagine watching your kids play a little league game with the Kansas City skyline as a backdrop. Just imagine spending a quiet afternoon on a park bench reading as the city passes by. Just imagine playing a tennis match on your lunch hour. Just imagine a tribute to the soldiers who fell in World War I, so moving it represents each one of them individually. Just imagine skipping out of the office early to go fishing in the heart of the city. Just imagine taking a sunset stroll through the lively and welcoming 175 acres of beautifully manicured lawns and gardens. Just Imagine....

I don't just imagine. I know it will be so.

See, it's people like this who need to be running this city.....not economists who don't want to take chances.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:13 am**

We always talk about how magic Penn Valley Park was before it fell into disrepair.....I'm wondering what was different about the park 60-80 years ago? Honestly, were their more homes lining the park where the BMA tower and the other glass buildings currently are off of 31st and Broadway. Is it fair to assume that Broadway didn't intersect the park, making for better flow. I also know that before the 1950's their was no I35 and the west side neighborhood flowed much better into the current Crossroads.

Lets here some analysis on what this greatness used to be, see some pictures and make suggestions off of this information.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:25 pm**

Prison. With big razor fences. Who doesn't love a good prison?

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:06 pm**

kc-vino, its really pretty simple. The parks and rec dept. is mostly and independent board. They don't answer to the city council. They also have not been capable of maintaining anything. Case Park and another park in the loop is being maintained by the DCID folks, not the parks people. The Zoo fell into disrepair while under Parks control. Same for the Liberty Memorial. They are also responsible for maintaining the boulevards, and we can see how crappy most of them are. Look at the crumbling memorials and fountains along the Paseo. Look at the conditions of the various community centers.

The only reason I voted for the restoration of the Liberty Memorial was the fact that the memorial would be run by a board OTHER than the parks dept. The Parks and Rec department is a "KC Old School" kind of organization. They are overextended, and underfunded, and yet continue to try to expand their holdings, and build new facilities, which are disasters. (see the westside community center). they are the reason Penn Valley and other parks are falling apart.

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:28 am**

tat2kc wrote: kc-vino, its really pretty simple. The parks and rec dept. is mostly and independent board. They don't answer to the city council. They also have not been capable of maintaining anything. Case Park and another park in the loop is being maintained by the DCID folks, not the parks people. The Zoo fell into disrepair while under Parks control. Same for the Liberty Memorial. They are also responsible for maintaining the boulevards, and we can see how crappy most of them are. Look at the crumbling memorials and fountains along the Paseo. Look at the conditions of the various community centers.

The only reason I voted for the restoration of the Liberty Memorial was the fact that the memorial would be run by a board OTHER than the parks dept. The Parks and Rec department is a "KC Old School" kind of organization. They are overextended, and underfunded, and yet continue to try to expand their holdings, and build new facilities, which are disasters. (see the westside community center). they are the reason Penn Valley and other parks are falling apart.

I don't think it is that simple. Yes while I've heard that they are very underfunded and we can see the lack of results in places that have been directly under their control....I still argue that is it much more than that. You must admit that is isn't like PVP's lawn isn't mowed or trash isn't picked up. The park doesn't suffer from that problem as much as it suffers from a city wide problem. An issue that people don't use the park. I don't see the park as dirty. Personally, the problem is much more with a lack of flow, roads intersecting key areas, paths leading to nowhere, steep hills, lack of residential directly around it, no signage, no major attraction (zoo, looping bike trail, a museum that isn't yet open, an aquarium, etc), and shady parts. Yes with a very well funded parks and rec we could have parts of the park more monitored (over by the scout), more money put into signage, and it would be very likely to have more weight at city hall when it came to hosting events at the park.

But I do think the blame should lie more in the development around the park (residential, the roads that are allowed to cut right through it) and the lack of overall vision for the park. Urban parks are great but when they have no vision they stand to only host the wrong activity.

Posted: **Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:10 pm**

thedream wrote: Penn Valley Park is a testament to the old Kansas City Parks and boulevard system. For the people of old Kansas City to reserve such a large part of the urban core for green space is impressive and intelligent with regards to urban planning. This buffer between downtown and Mid-town is really a symbol of the Mid-west's obsession with wide open spaces.

i thought penn valley park was not developed because the topography wasnt as convenient as adjacent parcels, and it became a shantytown but i guess im wrong.

Posted: **Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:46 am**

warwickland wrote: i thought penn valley park was not developed because the topography wasnt as convenient as adjacent parcels, and it became a shantytown but i guess im wrong.

Actually, Back at the turn of the century, the area where Union Station sits, down in the railroad bottoms, was a shanty town and the park was put in place as a buffer between the nice, new suburban neighborhoods that were Hyde Park and Old Hyde Park. The huge park was there to prevent the riff raff from the bottoms from infiltrating the nice, southern neighborhoods. The irony is that as the park still sits as a hole in the middle of urban redevelopment, it is also a symbol of Kansas City's early desire to create sprawl and leave the city behind.

I don't want them to develop the entire park, but man, you can't help but look at the huge amount of open space there and realize that you could easily develop about 200 high-dollar townhomes along the fringes of the park that would have wonderful views of downtown, easy access to a lot of park space and the urban redevelopment in the Crossroads/Union Station/Crown Center areas -- that would improve the park by having it's vast space better used.

Posted: **Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:56 am**

I don't necessarily have a problem with commercial development of some type taking place in the park but all of these calls for development around the perimeter seem like a recipe for exacerbating the park's number one problem. I still say that the number one problem facing the park is that it's perimeter is largely impassable and the obvious access points are few and far between. I don't see how building a perimeter of townhouses or condos around the parks edge does anything other make this problem worse.

Posted: **Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:19 pm**

LenexatoKCMO wrote: I don't see how building a perimeter of townhouses or condos around the parks edge does anything other make this problem worse.

well, it shouldn't just be around the perimeter....75% of the park should be replaced with a hilly and gridlike neighborhood of townhomes and 3-6 story apartment buildings. i would be ok even with beige new stuff like the buildings at Gillham Row. it doesn't even need any businesses, necessarily - just rooftops rooftops rooftops. that's what downtown KC needs.

Posted: **Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:26 pm**

LenexatoKCMO wrote: I don't necessarily have a problem with commercial development of some type taking place in the park but all of these calls for development around the perimeter seem like a recipe for exacerbating the park's number one problem. I still say that the number one problem facing the park is that it's perimeter is largely impassable and the obvious access points are few and far between. I don't see how building a perimeter of townhouses or condos around the parks edge does anything other make this problem worse.

urban development of some sort of highly connected grid like chriz suggests, with allocations for an off street bike trail would ideally improve connections to penn valley. a very small but urbane /walkable mixed use commercial node with a few sidewalk cafes facing the park would be nice. definitely no autocentric "pad" or suburban apartment type development, that would make things worse.

KCRag Forum

OFFICIAL: Penn Valley Park (Ideas+redeveloment)

Re: Creative ideas for Penn Valley Park

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