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Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:32 pm
by WoodDraw
DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:26 pm
WoodDraw wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 2:46 pm
The street car board lobbied heavily against closing any streets btw.
And then are like wow, with public input the right decision was made. Rolling my eyes to the back of my head emoji.
I'm not following. Which is the "right decision" you're referring to?
I think the board, which you're a member of, heavily fought against closing streets because it would push more car traffic into Main, which would cause problems.
No one can say what is the right solution. This forum has always been about challenging the thinking. But I think the board had an outside input in not closing streets and put it out as the public wanting it when in reality you lobbied heavily against it.
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:41 pm
by DaveKCMO
The streetcar board/authority has not publicly supported the idea of closing Baltimore, Walnut, or both. Perhaps it's been difficult to split hairs between saying a new lid park is a good idea overall versus the specific issues around permanently closing streets to that end (or how that might mitigate impacts on streetcar operations).
As an individual, I think this is a terrible place to put a park that demands a high level of programming. Freeway lid parks are lipsticks on pigs. Remove the freeway if you really want to have an impact on the environment, public safety, livability, and property values.
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:45 pm
by WoodDraw
DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:41 pm
The streetcar board/authority has not publicly supported the idea of closing Baltimore, Walnut, or both. Perhaps it's been difficult to split hairs between saying a new lid park is a good idea overall versus the specific issues around permanently closing streets to that end (or how that might mitigate impacts on streetcar operations).
As an individual, I think this is a terrible place to put a park that demands a high level of programming. Freeway lid parks are lipsticks on pigs. Remove the freeway if you really want to have an impact on the environment, public safety, livability, and property values.
You're splitting hairs, Dave. Whether you agree with something or not on an institutional level, you still have an impact on an individual level.
We've talked about this before. There is an engrossed group of people that effectively make decisions.
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 4:06 pm
by im2kull
Another weekend, another round of closures for Grand, Walnut, and more. No events noted, though that's obviously no longer a prerequisite for closure of public streets. This is sickening. If we are going to close these streets every weekend now, we might as well turn them into pedestrian walkways and program some additional retail in the middle of what used to be known as a street.
Why, is a private entity closing public streets?? Without input, or approval from the public? This is absurd. Can we at least close more of downtown while we're at it?
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 5:06 pm
by droopy
im2kull wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 4:06 pm
Why, is a private entity closing public streets?? Without input, or approval from the public? This is absurd. Can we at least close more of downtown while we're at it?
It is pretty clear…because Cordish is allowed to do it by the city. They obviously do it to prevent “violence” or “undesirable behavior” on the edge of their property which I would also take 100% advantage of if I was a business owner with that power. I have no issue with Cordish taking advantage of this.
I do have issue with the city allowing it. There are so many donut tire tracks around downtown (and on the highway!!), this is not a PnL problem, address it.
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 7:56 pm
by bspecht
Looks like Cordish pays a flat $5,000 for a their P&L permits yearly, one way to do it.
https://compasskc.kcmo.org/EnerGov_Prod ... f?tab=fees
Note: These closures without a related event don't have permits.
Cost for closing for an ~hour is calculated here.
https://compasskc.kcmo.org/EnerGov_Prod ... 9?tab=fees
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2023 9:24 pm
by FangKC
What if other businesses started closing sections of other streets every weekend that prevented anyone from getting into the Loop to frequent the Power & Light District? They too want to prevent street racing and crime.
I understand Cordish's concerns, but they need to take it up with the police chief and the police board.
The City could rebuild Grand to calm traffic, but the street racers would just move somewhere else. Can you rebuild every major artery street in the city to prevent street racing?
Perhaps the easiest solution is for the City to build a racing track somewhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_Ci ... al_Raceway
https://kchistory.org/islandora/search/ ... pe=edismax
Maybe here. It's within KCMO borders and there aren't really lots of people living really close.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1903329 ... ?entry=ttu
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 9:02 am
by shinatoo
FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 9:24 pm
What if other businesses started closing sections of other streets every weekend that prevented anyone from getting into the Loop to frequent the Power & Light District? They too want to prevent street racing and crime.
I understand Cordish's concerns, but they need to take it up with the police chief and the police board.
The City could rebuild Grand to calm traffic, but the street racers would just move somewhere else. Can you rebuild every major artery street in the city to prevent street racing?
Perhaps the easiest solution is for the City to build a racing track somewhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_Ci ... al_Raceway
https://kchistory.org/islandora/search/ ... pe=edismax
Maybe here. It's within KCMO borders and there aren't really lots of people living really close.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1903329 ... ?entry=ttu
We had one, built in the 60's because of this very issue. Then powerful people bought property near it and started complaining until they got it closed. Now we are back dealing with the same issues we had in the 60's.
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 9:22 am
by langosta
shinatoo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 9:02 am
FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 9:24 pm
What if other businesses started closing sections of other streets every weekend that prevented anyone from getting into the Loop to frequent the Power & Light District? They too want to prevent street racing and crime.
I understand Cordish's concerns, but they need to take it up with the police chief and the police board.
The City could rebuild Grand to calm traffic, but the street racers would just move somewhere else. Can you rebuild every major artery street in the city to prevent street racing?
Perhaps the easiest solution is for the City to build a racing track somewhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_Ci ... al_Raceway
https://kchistory.org/islandora/search/ ... pe=edismax
Maybe here. It's within KCMO borders and there aren't really lots of people living really close.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1903329 ... ?entry=ttu
We had one, built in the 60's because of this very issue. Then powerful people bought property near it and started complaining until they got it closed. Now we are back dealing with the same issues we had in the 60's.
Next compliant will be its too expensive
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 9:52 am
by KCPowercat
im2kull wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 4:06 pm
Another weekend, another round of closures for Grand, Walnut, and more. No events noted, though that's obviously no longer a prerequisite for closure of public streets. This is sickening. If we are going to close these streets every weekend now, we might as well turn them into pedestrian walkways and program some additional retail in the middle of what used to be known as a street.
Why, is a private entity closing public streets?? Without input, or approval from the public? This is absurd. Can we at least close more of downtown while we're at it?
Posting here is haha and all but contact your councilperson.
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:32 pm
by neurosyphilis
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 4:34 pm
by im2kull
Fuck me. At those costs I'd close the entire loop off every fucking night just to be a fucking asshole. Outrageous.
Of course, the city won't even entertain my request because there's clearly a two tier system in place here. Fuck. Imagine the block parties we could be having.
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 4:39 pm
by im2kull
FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 9:24 pm
What if other businesses started closing sections of other streets every weekend that prevented anyone from getting into the Loop to frequent the Power & Light District? They too want to prevent street racing and crime.
I understand Cordish's concerns, but they need to take it up with the police chief and the police board.
The City could rebuild Grand to calm traffic, but the street racers would just move somewhere else. Can you rebuild every major artery street in the city to prevent street racing?
Perhaps the easiest solution is for the City to build a racing track somewhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_Ci ... al_Raceway
https://kchistory.org/islandora/search/ ... pe=edismax
Maybe here. It's within KCMO borders and there aren't really lots of people living really close.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1903329 ... ?entry=ttu
Wait, the city literally owned a race track. Then bulldozed it for what's currently a pathetic 93 acres of tall grassy unkempt and unusable field? Is this a parody?
Fuck. Build a road course or asphalt lot there or whatever for folks to redirect their racing shenanigans to.
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 7:28 pm
by WoodDraw
A point I've tried to make to some people is that cordish and utilities close off streets at will. As far as I know, there's no coherent traffic strategy from this.
When you try to do a generational park, the city should think about how traffic maps around downtown and take advantage of the opportunity to make changes.
The responses I've mostly gotten are they're just super worried about traffic spilling on to main. Fair concern.
I just don't think we're solving anything here. I told a friend that if you're always prisoner to past bad decisions then you just keep making more bad decisions on top of them.
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:19 am
by FangKC
im2kull wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 4:39 pm
FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 9:24 pm
What if other businesses started closing sections of other streets every weekend that prevented anyone from getting into the Loop to frequent the Power & Light District? They too want to prevent street racing and crime.
I understand Cordish's concerns, but they need to take it up with the police chief and the police board.
The City could rebuild Grand to calm traffic, but the street racers would just move somewhere else. Can you rebuild every major artery street in the city to prevent street racing?
Perhaps the easiest solution is for the City to build a racing track somewhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_Ci ... al_Raceway
https://kchistory.org/islandora/search/ ... pe=edismax
Maybe here. It's within KCMO borders and there aren't really lots of people living really close.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1903329 ... ?entry=ttu
Wait, the city literally owned a race track. Then bulldozed it for what's currently a pathetic 93 acres of tall grassy unkempt and unusable field? Is this a parody?
Fuck. Build a road course or asphalt lot there or whatever for folks to redirect their racing shenanigans to.
No, The City didn't own that racetrack. The neighborhood started complaining about it so the City bought the racetrack, demolished it, and made it park land.
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 2:59 pm
by Jblanco
I don't think a racetrack matters. If there were 10 racetracks within a mile of Grand Avenue these worthless little sh__heads would still waste rubber, risk lives and disturb everyone's peace because they don't care about speed and racing, they want to show off. Even if that means someone dies, they destroy property and/or make everyone around them miserable with their idiot showboating. They need a stage for their lack of talent and Grand Avenue gives them one.
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 3:57 pm
by im2kull
FangKC wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:19 am
im2kull wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 4:39 pm
FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 9:24 pm
What if other businesses started closing sections of other streets every weekend that prevented anyone from getting into the Loop to frequent the Power & Light District? They too want to prevent street racing and crime.
I understand Cordish's concerns, but they need to take it up with the police chief and the police board.
The City could rebuild Grand to calm traffic, but the street racers would just move somewhere else. Can you rebuild every major artery street in the city to prevent street racing?
Perhaps the easiest solution is for the City to build a racing track somewhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_Ci ... al_Raceway
https://kchistory.org/islandora/search/ ... pe=edismax
Maybe here. It's within KCMO borders and there aren't really lots of people living really close.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1903329 ... ?entry=ttu
Wait, the city literally owned a race track. Then bulldozed it for what's currently a pathetic 93 acres of tall grassy unkempt and unusable field? Is this a parody?
Fuck. Build a road course or asphalt lot there or whatever for folks to redirect their racing shenanigans to.
No, The City didn't own that racetrack. The neighborhood started complaining about it so the City bought the racetrack, demolished it, and made it park land.
What neighborhood? It's literally all industrial wasteland around the old KCIR. Also, point being.. they literally owned a racetrack after buying it, before demo'ing it.
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 3:59 pm
by im2kull
Jblanco wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 2:59 pm
I don't think a racetrack matters. If there were 10 racetracks within a mile of Grand Avenue these worthless little sh__heads would still waste rubber, risk lives and disturb everyone's peace because they don't care about speed and racing, they want to show off. Even if that means someone dies, they destroy property and/or make everyone around them miserable with their idiot showboating. They need a stage for their lack of talent and Grand Avenue gives them one.
Agree'd, except this actually doesn't even happen on Grand within the downtown core. It never has. The sideshow typically occurs on the other side of Truman Blvd, something these closures still don't mitigate. I think it's a common misconception spread here that these sideshows are actually occurring within the P&L district or the T-Mobile Center frontage. They aren't. It's always closed. It's happening South of the highway and over on Main Street mostly.
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:00 pm
by TheSmokinPun
There are sideshows on SW Blvd, there are sideshows down in Waldo. Heck, I saw where they had done donuts the night before at I-29 & 64th St, so sideshows are all over the place.
Everyone gets all upset with this while never giving an answer for what the kids should do instead. We were all kids once, time's have changed. It was easier for people my age to party at cheap housing but that's gone, where do you expect them to go?
Re: Grand Blvd Closures
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:04 pm
by shinatoo
im2kull wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 3:57 pm
FangKC wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:19 am
im2kull wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 4:39 pm
Wait, the city literally owned a race track. Then bulldozed it for what's currently a pathetic 93 acres of tall grassy unkempt and unusable field? Is this a parody?
Fuck. Build a road course or asphalt lot there or whatever for folks to redirect their racing shenanigans to.
No, The City didn't own that racetrack. The neighborhood started complaining about it so the City bought the racetrack, demolished it, and made it park land.
What neighborhood? It's literally all industrial wasteland around the old KCIR. Also, point being.. they literally owned a racetrack after buying it, before demo'ing it.
There is no industrial around the old KCIR, it's all farm or large lot residential. Otherwise I completely agree with you.
