KCRag Forum

Don't the coldish towers sit on 15-20 million dollar city funded garages?

I think the more you have the more people come. Downtown needs more than just the P&L district and so does the P&L district.

This project seems to compliment the P&L District more than it would compete with it.

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:05 am Don't the coldish towers sit on 15-20 million dollar city funded garages?

I think the more you have the more people come. Downtown needs more than just the P&L district and so does the P&L district.

This project seems to compliment the P&L District more than it would compete with it.

Yes, as part of master development agreement made 17 years ago when meth, hookers and strip clubs were the main attraction downtown.

As someone with intimate knowledge of PNL financials and operations, this *could* hurt PNL depending on how they react. It could also act as a catalyst for some upgrades PNL needs on the overall maintenance and repair front. Westport originally took a hit when PNL opened but it ended up raising all tides after awhile.

I do think it could be a great add to the city and it could also attract a completely different crowd that's not interested in attending events in the PNL. I'm not opposed, just concerned with the unknowns.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:31 am

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:05 am Don't the coldish towers sit on 15-20 million dollar city funded garages?

I think the more you have the more people come. Downtown needs more than just the P&L district and so does the P&L district.

This project seems to compliment the P&L District more than it would compete with it.

Yes, as part of master development agreement made 17 years ago when meth, hookers and strip clubs were the main attraction downtown.

As someone with intimate knowledge of PNL financials and operations, this *could* hurt PNL depending on how they react. It could also act as a catalyst for some upgrades PNL needs on the overall maintenance and repair front. Westport originally took a hit when PNL opened but it ended up raising all tides after awhile.

I do think it could be a great add to the city and it could also attract a completely different crowd that's not interested in attending events in the PNL. I'm not opposed, just concerned with the unknowns.

I'm totally fine with the city subsidizing Cordish towers. You just said they were not subsidized that's all. I mean even with subsidies, Cordish has massively invested in Downtown KC and is probably the single biggest thing that turned Downtown around form the shithole it was. I hope the city continues to support Cordish as much as possible.

Hopefully new development raises the tide for everybody. I think this Pennway thing is an odd location and because of that, it will have limited success drawing large crowds. Nearly everybody will drive and park there and there is just not enough room for parking. If something like this were in Washington Sq Park, people could park anywhere and take the streetcar and also easily visit the P&L on the same day without having to get back into a car and park it again, which I doubt most people will do.

To be honest P&L and this project seem to be for totally different markets, so I’m not sure they will hurt anything. Could be wrong though

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:31 am

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:05 am Don't the coldish towers sit on 15-20 million dollar city funded garages?

I think the more you have the more people come. Downtown needs more than just the P&L district and so does the P&L district.

This project seems to compliment the P&L District more than it would compete with it.

Yes, as part of master development agreement made 17 years ago when meth, hookers and strip clubs were the main attraction downtown.

As someone with intimate knowledge of PNL financials and operations, this *could* hurt PNL depending on how they react. It could also act as a catalyst for some upgrades PNL needs on the overall maintenance and repair front. Westport originally took a hit when PNL opened but it ended up raising all tides after awhile.

I do think it could be a great add to the city and it could also attract a completely different crowd that's not interested in attending events in the PNL. I'm not opposed, just concerned with the unknowns.

How is Cordish going to view the Royals & and if they put up some entertainment stuff then?

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:25 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:31 am

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:05 am Don't the coldish towers sit on 15-20 million dollar city funded garages?

I think the more you have the more people come. Downtown needs more than just the P&L district and so does the P&L district.

This project seems to compliment the P&L District more than it would compete with it.

Yes, as part of master development agreement made 17 years ago when meth, hookers and strip clubs were the main attraction downtown.

As someone with intimate knowledge of PNL financials and operations, this *could* hurt PNL depending on how they react. It could also act as a catalyst for some upgrades PNL needs on the overall maintenance and repair front. Westport originally took a hit when PNL opened but it ended up raising all tides after awhile.

I do think it could be a great add to the city and it could also attract a completely different crowd that's not interested in attending events in the PNL. I'm not opposed, just concerned with the unknowns.

How is Cordish going to view the Royals & and if they put up some entertainment stuff then?

Cordish is financially invested in the idea of a downtown ballpark, regardless of final location. A few bars next to a baseball stadium that likely won’t see much business on off-days isn’t a major concern.

Goonies wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:04 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:25 pm Gonna be honest idk who would go out of their way to the middle of nothing to a watch party that borders some highways & train tracks when you could go hangout downtown at P&L and do it

The anti-PNL folks would and theres alot of them.

Always wondered what the “anti-PNL” crowd looks like and why they’re so anti-PNL? Guessing they prefer older and locally owned spots? There’s a difference between simply not being a patron of a place because it’s not your jam and being “anti” as in against.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 7:38 am

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:25 pm

DColeKC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:22 pmI also am against city incentives for any other “entertainment” districts that might directly compete with the PNL district. Feels like a bad move creating more competition when they’re already helping to subsidize PNL.

If P&L was created to be a monopoly on downtown entertainment we shouldn’t have built it

Once again. Referring to city incentives going to this particular project. Not that the project shouldn’t happen.

PNL was created to revitalize downtown and spur other economic development and that’s been a dramatic success.

I took it there because you literally said we shouldn't incentive other projects because we did PNL. I didn't know if that included housing in your opinion.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:39 pm

Goonies wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:04 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:25 pm Gonna be honest idk who would go out of their way to the middle of nothing to a watch party that borders some highways & train tracks when you could go hangout downtown at P&L and do it

The anti-PNL folks would and theres alot of them.

Always wondered what the “anti-PNL” crowd looks like and why they’re so anti-PNL? Guessing they prefer older and locally owned spots? There’s a difference between simply not being a patron of a place because it’s not your jam and being “anti” as in against.

Go to a WRBL meeting sometime.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:39 pm Always wondered what the “anti-PNL” crowd looks like and why they’re so anti-PNL? Guessing they prefer older and locally owned spots? There’s a difference between simply not being a patron of a place because it’s not your jam and being “anti” as in against.

I'm not anti P&L. The whole project has been transformative and catalytic. Lets take a moment for a round of applause for Cordish and their bullishness on our city and downtown. I'm squarely in the "not a patron because it's not my jam" camp. It's when takes like "lets not give incentives to any other project that might provide alternate entertainment amenities" start getting tossed around that I get rubbed the wrong way. P&L appeals to and draws patronage from a way smaller demographic than you might think. Now I understand the spending power of that demo is significant and the market dictates programing at P&L but the idea that downtown entertainment/recreation is competing for the same 10,000 people every weekend no matter what is on offer is a really narrow and simple view of the market.

I don't think anybody here in 2022 is anti-PNL

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:10 pm I don't think anybody here in 2022 is anti-PNL

or anti-streetcar. or anti-airport.

But there's still some anti-Royals downtown! Gee, I see where the pattern is going though...

"Yes, as part of master development agreement made 17 years ago when meth, hookers and strip clubs were the main attraction downtown"

Wait a minute...there were strip clubs downtown 17 yrs ago? As someone who started going out downtown about 25-26 yrs ago how did I miss those.. LOL

Joking of course, having a little fun. But honestly I can only recall Bazooka's and Temptations(which was I think Ziegfield's before) Oddly enough they are both still around right? Temptations is as I've seen ppl going in and out of there while hanging out at Record Bar or Cigar Box. Not sure on Bazooka's

I'm all for the P&L, T-Mobile Center, and Cordish. It's been an awesome development that served as the catalyst for everything good we have going on downtown, Crossroads, River Market, etc. It was the magnet to draw interest back downtown.

Speaking of PNL, they've been making a boatload the last month from KU basketball fans. KU making every game of the Big 12 tournament brought in tons of fans for each of those games. Then it's been jam packed every game for KU's March Madness run as well. They're going on their 4th game (Elite Eight) now on Sunday too. PNL is just reaping from them.

Wouldn't it be better if the tourney brought in fans from other teams rather than KU who live in the area?

Historically Iowa St fans have been a huge boon to P&L

freedog wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:30 pm Historically Iowa St fans have been a huge boon to P&L

Iowa State fans are great. KU fans are great for PNL too but tend to go straight home if KU doesn't win. Iowa State fans booze no matter if they win or lose.

KU fans won't pack the outside plaza unless it's a big game but they'll pack Johnny's for most games. Huge for Johnnys revenue.

GRID wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:25 pm Wouldn't it be better if the tourney brought in fans from other teams rather than KU who live in the area?

That already happens. But for every KU march madness game, there is a packed P&L (and surrounding restaurants) to accompany it. So as long as KU keeps advancing and getting more games, it's more money for the district.

GRID wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:25 pm Wouldn't it be better if the tourney brought in fans from other teams rather than KU who live in the area?

A little off subject but KC maybe a big benefactor from the changes occurring in the B12 (as long as Kansas stays in the that conference). Cincy and Houston support their bball teams quite well. BYU has a very active fan base. OU will no longer be around to lobby for OKC as a tournament venue. Fortunately, KC falls near the geographic center of the new B12 to some extent (still a bit too much centered weighted towards Texas w/ Tech, Baylor, TCU and Houston comprising a third of the conference)

Are KU fans packing the P&L district for the games like they do for the Chiefs and Royals?