KCRag Forum

im2kull wrote:The real problem here is AEG and their intentional mismanagement of Kemper Arena.

Nope. The problem is this metro area is not large enough to support two arenas this size. Then throw in the arena at Municipal and the Independence Events Center to siphon off some of the smaller events. The private management company that ran Kemper before AEG did OK but still operated at a loss. Another item that hurts Kemper are the other buildings in the complex, all are in the same budget, that also operate in the red.

chaglang wrote:

im2kull wrote:The real problem here is AEG and their intentional mismanagement of Kemper Arena. Kemper was much better under their old management, even after the Sprint Center had opened. AEG purposely ran Kemper into the ground. I don't understand how you could hire the same company to manage 2 competing arenas and not expect them to let one fail at the benefit of the other.

Because if they fill both of them, they make twice the money than if they let one fail?

AEG pays the yearly operating costs for Sprint Center, because they failed to bring us an NBA or NHL team. Thus they book the SC every event they can, while letting Kemper rot. Tell me that's not a conflict of interests, and that AEG isn't purposely letting Kemper fail.

AEG makes more money by filling both SC and Kemper, no?

KC-wildcat wrote:AEG makes more money by filling both SC and Kemper, no?

AEG loses money if they don't fill SC. There's not enough business to book SC & Kemper fully, all of the time. They book both equally then they're only filling up maybe 50% of the SC's schedule, and cutting profit margins while paying what they owe contractually for not bringing an NBA/NHL team to KC. They have NOTHING to gain by booking events at Kemper. Plain and simple, so they focus on Sprint Center. Profit is profit in their books, cutting expenditures by mothballing Kemper and trying to scrap it off only helps AEG and their conflicts of interest here in KC.

ANY other company would have EVERYTHING to lose if they didn't manage Kemper correctly and consistently failed to book events for the arena. Why? Because they wouldn't have the giant cash cow sitting downtown to make their money off of, they would be relying on Kemper, and only Kemper. Not Sprint Center, Kemper, and the American Royal Complex!

Why did we build SC?

Oh yeah, because Kemper is a pile of shit that major acts no longer toured.

I just don't see some nefarious, diabolical conspiracy here. Kemper is ripe for demo.

im2kull wrote:

chaglang wrote:

im2kull wrote:The real problem here is AEG and their intentional mismanagement of Kemper Arena. Kemper was much better under their old management, even after the Sprint Center had opened. AEG purposely ran Kemper into the ground. I don't understand how you could hire the same company to manage 2 competing arenas and not expect them to let one fail at the benefit of the other.

Because if they fill both of them, they make twice the money than if they let one fail?

AEG pays the yearly operating costs for Sprint Center, because they failed to bring us an NBA or NHL team.

Wut?

Adaptive Reuse. We must stop thinking of Kemper as an arena. Its time as arena is done. That does not mean that the potential is not there for something great however.

Demosthenes wrote:Adaptive Reuse. We must stop thinking of Kemper as an arena. Its time as arena is done. That does not mean that the potential is not there for something great however.

Great. Private developers are more than welcome to line up and redevelop it. But not on the City's dime.

Defunct arena has been replaced. Stop propping up this relic and sell it or demo it.

KC-wildcat wrote:Why did we build SC?

Oh yeah, because Kemper is a pile of shit that major acts no longer toured.

I just don't see some nefarious, diabolical conspiracy here. Kemper is ripe for demo.

Kemper was doing fine and had plenty of events booked prior to us handing the management contract over to AEG. There's no reason Kemper can't still be a viable venue. NBA/NHL aren't the only things an arena can do, just look at the Sprint Center. No tenant, no problem.

Besides, the city still owes money on Kemper. No use demolishing something that we still owe money on, and can make money from!

KCPowercat wrote:

im2kull wrote: AEG pays the yearly operating costs for Sprint Center, because they failed to bring us an NBA or NHL team.

Wut?

Did you seriously not know this?

Kemper needs to be converted into something else, it is not viable as a general purpose arena. It is 40 years old. Most 40 year old arenas get torn down. Plus Kemper is in a bad location for a general purpose arena. Municipal is KC's back up arena. We don't need two back up arenas.

I have no problem with tearing it down. The land has higher uses than serving as the location of an underused, very old, general purpose arena.

However, I wonder if converting Kemper to other uses might not produce more value by taking advantage of existing facilities. Perhaps as some sort of indoor sports facility, combining ice hockey, indoor tennis, basketball, livestock rings, etc. The facility would be geared towards serving amatuer club sports. I assume you still have decent locker rooms left from when Kemper was host of the B12 tournement.

But nothing you put into Kemper is going to need more than 3,000 spectator seats.

If conversion isn't the highest and best use of the land then tear it down and put in a residential appartments to bring some people to the west bottoms. If you tear down Kemper, and remove the parking, there is a lot of land available for development, minutes from downtown.

And the fact that their are still some bonds outstanding is irrelevant. Economic decisions are based on comparing the costs and benefits of alternative courses of action. the debt payments have to be made regardless of whether Kemper is torn down or converted to another use. So the debt is irrelevant to choosing the right course of action.

So we've got the biggest sports architecture firms in the world, located right here in KC. We know all about the industry.

Cities are building arenas, stadiums like wildfire. I know it's weird, but when cities build a knew venue, they tear down the old. Jerry demoed old cowboys stadium. Steinbrenner demoed old Yankee stadium. And on and on and on. There's no point keeping two arenas when one is really nice and the other is a pile of shit.

Who cares. The more events at the Sprint Center, the better for downtown and the P&L District. I'd be happy if Kemper never saw another event. The location made it one of KC's biggest civic mistakes in a history of some pretty big mistakes.

KCPowercat wrote:

im2kull wrote: AEG pays the yearly operating costs for Sprint Center, because they failed to bring us an NBA or NHL team.

Wut?

Did you seriously not know this?[/quote]

Throw me a link to a source explaining what you are saying...we maybe thinking of two different things. Cost overruns and operating costs are AEG's responsibility no matter if they brought in a team or not. Part of the original agreement:

http://www.pitch.com/kansascity/were-pu ... id=2183027

http://www.emporis.com/building/sprintc ... ity-mo-usa

im2kull wrote:AEG pays the yearly operating costs for Sprint Center, because they failed to bring us an NBA or NHL team.

Not quite true.

Can't be proven one way or another but one big drawback to luring a team to SC is AEG. But that is because most owners/teams wants to control the arena the team plays in. If the city operated SC or AEG give up management of the arena it would be easier to attract a team. Anyway, AEG pays for the operating costs without a team and would continue to pay operating costs of SC unless the team assumed control of the arena.

KCPowercat wrote:
http://www.emporis.com/building/sprintc ... ity-mo-usa

LOL. I forgot about all the pictures I put on that site.

As Sprint Center flourishes, Kemper Arena’s future still uncertain

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/10/06/38 ... rtain.html

Kemper is now the home of Arena Football again as a tenant. Obviously not much money will come in from that though.

KansasCityCraka wrote:Kemper is now the home of Arena Football again as a tenant. Obviously not much money will come in from that though.

the previous team lasted 6 years at the Sprint Center. not a winning sport in KC obviously

I'd tear it out and begin to return the area into bottomland. We need more places we can let flood.

SAVE OUR KEMPER!

Tear down Kemper Arena? Not so fast

Their argument: It’s a shame to so cavalierly proceed with expensive plans to knock down a 38-year-old building that has architectural significance and a lot of good years left to live.

“I felt that it was very shortsighted to rush to demolish the building, rather than repurposing it,” said Erik Heitman, an architect with BNIM and chairman of the Kansas City Historic Preservation Commission. “The first response is that they wanted to tear down an event space to build another event space. That cannot be an efficient use of a community asset.”

Why can't Kemper be used more for regional and national rodeo finals?