Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question

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Highlander
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Re: Peachtree Restaurant

Post by Highlander »

trailerkid wrote: the Jones pool operates in the daylight hours, but it is a nightlife operation similar to Mosaic or any of their other night clubs. my argument is Cordish hasn't created a diversified district that is a destination outside of the party/nightlife scene.
Well, that is at least a start and it's better than what was there before...namely nothing.   Retail (outside of local needs like Corsentino's provides) is just not going to work without a larger population with spending power nearby.  I understand that even the Legends, which has far more land available to create critical mass than the P&L District will ever have, even struggles.

I would not be so dismissive of Cordish's accomplishments, while they have created primarily an entertainment district they have also created a local service industry node which will make living in the city that much easier.  They've brought some decent restaurants to downtown.....too many of which are struggling but others, like Bristols, seem to be doing well.  They are a great complement to events in the Sprint Center, Midland, Empire movies, conventions (!!) and the soon to be PAC and that will play a citical role in making Downtown KC a destination again.  It doesn't put DT where it once was or should be but certainly it gets KC off square one and onto the curve and that's all that could be expected.  Hopefully, nobody thought Cordish was immediately going  to restore the Emory Bird Thayer era of downtown retail in one flail swoop.

Hate to see the Peachtre go away though, went there once and thought it was pretty good in terms of food and service (but not great) but in an overall nice location offering a pretty worthwhile experience.
Last edited by Highlander on Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Peachtree Restaurant

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Highlander wrote: Well, that is at least a start and it's better than what was there before...namely nothing.  
a lemonade stand and Dollar General store would also be better than what was there before. great argument.
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Re: Peachtree Restaurant

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trailerkid wrote: a lemonade stand and Dollar General store would also be better than what was there before. great argument.
Yea right.  Way to read the whole post.  The P&L district may not have created a place for you to come in and shop from Lawrence but it did create a reason for going downtown and single handedly took out a huge blighted area of surface parking.  That lemonade stand would have had to be pretty special to do that. 
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Re: Peachtree Restaurant

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Btw, there were thousands of people (bikers) in the Live! Block tonight for what appeared to be a concert. That's right. Thousands.  Downtown. Wednesday.
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Re: Peachtree Restaurant

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People that go to bars don't matter.
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Re: Peachtree Restaurant

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KCPowercat wrote: People that go to bars don't matter.
Because they could be going to bars anywhere.

:P
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Re: Peachtree Restaurant

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KCPowercat wrote: People that go to bars don't matter.
they matter for a window of roughly 12 hours on the weekends.
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Re: Peachtree Restaurant

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I don't believe last night was a weekend. If it was I am up way too early.
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Re: Peachtree Restaurant

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trailerkid wrote: a lemonade stand and Dollar General store would also be better than what was there before. great argument.
trailerkid wrote: address the point instead of making jokes.
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Re: Peachtree Restaurant

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trailerkid wrote: they matter for a window of roughly 12 hours on the weekends.
Didn't realize that the District was complete.
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Re: Peachtree Restaurant

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KCPowercat wrote: I don't believe last night was a weekend. If it was I am up way too early.
An outlier doesn't prove your point.  Are you really going to argue that the district isn't sadly dead the majority of the time when there isn't a special event or during weekend party hours?  When there isn't something programmed, people don't have any reason to be there - that's the problem.  Outside of the bars, the rest of the district is too mediocre to attract people on its own - people have to be lured in with concerts, cage fighting, and the like.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question

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if Cordish could lure some celeb-chef restaurants, or something of that nature - true destination dining - that would go a long way in rounding out the area.  other than the bristol and maybe a couple of other places, it's strictly mediocre food that you get on your way to the Tim McGraw concert or whatever.  the retail is strictly Summit Fair/Legends fodder, if not worse.  that is what is underwhelming.  i'm pleased that AEG or whomever is programming the district with concerts and events that bring crowds - that's what the Living Room is made for, and it's good for that.  the nightlife portion of the district is operating at an A-level, but the other portions of the district (retail, dining) are operating at a D-level and the supposed residential aspect of the district is currently DOA. 
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question

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How is that different from westport, broadside, Hell even the plaza anymore.

Of course programming brings in more people.....that's the point. Id say on a normal boring Tuesday the johnnys in p&l has more people than say kellys that same night. I'm really not sure what your point is.

I'm all for more retail and better restaurants...but to claim last night is an outlier because it had an event is silly....its an entertainment district.....it does events.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question

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Went to the Royals game last night and while standing in line for a beer two guys from Boston were in front of me.  They were in Kansas City for the first time and asked the beer lady where they should go after the game.  She had to think for a long time and then said, "There is that new Power and Light District downtown."  We've been watching this thing since the first shovel of dirt.  It takes awhile for the masses to catch on.  
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question

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KCPowercat wrote: How is that different from westport, broadside, Hell even the plaza anymore.
Afternoons, weekday evenings, P&L is litterally like a ghost town if there isn't anything programed.  No one is going to any of those places just to go to them.  That isn't remotely true of any of your other examples - they may not be SRO but there will be a steady hum of economic activity. 
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question

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LenexatoKCMO wrote: Afternoons, weekday evenings, P&L is litterally like a ghost town if there isn't anything programed.  No one is going to any of those places just to go to them.  That isn't remotely true of any of your other examples - they may not be SRO but there will be a steady hum of economic activity.  
exactly.  no one denies that the P+L is packed on weekend nights, and nights where there is a specific event programmed in the Living Room or Sprint Center.  what we were promised was that the retail and dining ITSELF would be a draw for residents of the city and region, not just capture some event traffic.  the caliber of attraction is just not there.  what we have is taxpayer-supported mediocrity to compete with  institutions that ARE of destination-caliber - i.e. the freighthouse area, as TK pointed out.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

KCPowercat wrote: How is that different from westport, broadside, Hell even the plaza anymore.
The amount of money the city invested and the debt load it assumed.

Don't get wrong.  From a performance point of view the P&L probably deserves a C+ or a B- but financially a D- if not a F.  Right now I would compare it to paying $50,000 for a $20,000 car.  Yes, that $20,000 car has 4 wheels and an engine like a $50,000 car but it still is not a $50,000 car.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question

Post by KC-wildcat »

chrizow wrote: exactly.  no one denies that the P+L is packed on weekend nights, and nights where there is a specific event programmed in the Living Room or Sprint Center.  what we were promised was that the retail and dining ITSELF would be a draw for residents of the city and region, not just capture some event traffic.  the caliber of attraction is just not there.  what we have is taxpayer-supported mediocrity to compete with  institutions that ARE of destination-caliber - i.e. the freighthouse area, as TK pointed out.
I see what a lot of you (Lenexa, Chriz, TK) are saying.  There is absolutely no question that residential was DOA.  Likewise, there is absolutely no question that retail is currently failing.  And, the dining is currently average at best.

On the other hand, there is absolutley no argument that the entertainment element is thriving.  There is also no argument that the business/services element is thriving (see H&R Block, Midland, AMC, Cosentinos).  Furthermore, in my experience, P&L District is succeeding in bringing new residents to DTKC.  

In light of these realities, I simply cannot see how some of you can adjudge the entire District as a failure after 2 years.  It is so idiotic and incomprehensible to me.  There are negatives no doubt.  There is room for growth no doubt.  But, there has been wild success as well.  The P&L has exceeded expectations in various aspects.  It's a mixed bag.

   
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question

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Lenexa..I've been to westport on weekdays and weeknights....are you seriously trying to say its a hum of economic activity?  Plaza yes.

This takes time to grow....probably help if Damn near everybody didn't immediately predict its death to every friend and relative and actually give it a shot but that's not the way KC operates....p&l, union station, etc....we can't wait to declare something a failure.

I think your expectations are unreasonable at this point. Go count the people at falloon, kellys, brooksider on a boring old night......its not busy.
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Re: Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question

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Chriz....you've said you avoid the p&l in the past...not based just on the places themselves but how the district was put together. How can you expect it to grow when you, a KC supporter, can't wait to tell others to avoid the area? 

Do you think the district is done growing?  You say you were promised (?) Destination retail and restaurants.....can those not stop be added? 
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