Making downtown more pedestrian friendly

[staubio]

even in charlotte, the pedestrian gets an automatic 40 seconds to cross trade street in uptown (their CBD). it's only four lane widths! there are even some places in the world where there is a pedestrian-only part of the cycle where ALL drivers get a red and ALL pedestrians get a walk signal in every direction.

by contrast, a pedestrian at grand and pershing must cross six lanes AND a landscaped median in 30 seconds (try it sometime with a few kids in tow). and now, every pedestrian in our CBD must press a button before their green cycle starts to get a walk signal.

Have you ever gotten a response from councilmembers on this?

[enough]

a couple of transportation stimulus projects selected by marc are kcmo traffic signal projects.  they will be part of the quarterly tip (transportation improvement program) amendment that will be put out for public comment at next week's (march 24) total transportation policy committee meeting.

consider this public comment period as an opportunity to "sound off" about pedestrian buttons.  for example, ask that the kcmo signal projects not be approved until the city adopts an acceptable policy on the use of pedestrian buttons.

such a comment would probably not get these specific traffic signal projects stopped, or even delayed, but it would call attention to the issue because the comments would be sent out to all ttpc members as part of the meeting agenda packet for the april meeting.

councilman ed ford is co-chair of ttpc.

[cdm2p]

Have you ever gotten a response from councilmembers on this?

I said it before and I'll say it again: traffic engineers ruin this town.  They are the ones that identify the intersections that need signals, design the signals, and determine the timing.  Damn be the council and the public, as far as they are concerned.

[DaveKCMO]

i have been noodling on a persuasive proposal, rather than just lobbing a complaint over to the council.

[staubio]

a couple of transportation stimulus projects selected by marc are kcmo traffic signal projects.  they will be part of the quarterly tip (transportation improvement program) amendment that will be put out for public comment at next week's (march 24) total transportation policy committee meeting.

consider this public comment period as an opportunity to "sound off" about pedestrian buttons.  for example, ask that the kcmo signal projects not be approved until the city adopts an acceptable policy on the use of pedestrian buttons.

such a comment would probably not get these specific traffic signal projects stopped, or even delayed, but it would call attention to the issue because the comments would be sent out to all ttpc members as part of the meeting agenda packet for the april meeting.

councilman ed ford is co-chair of ttpc.

Will you be sure to share the dates of public sessions with us when they become available? DNA will be all over that. This is a priority issue for us.

[staubio]

An observations we have heard from our membership and committees:

There is no coordination when downtown projects tear up sidewalks. When permits are pulled for these things, there should be vigilance on the effect on pedestrians. Too often, both sides of the street have closed sidewalks, diverting pedestrians 3 blocks. This is a HUGE disruption for a pedestrian -- much more than a car going around the block. It shouldn't be difficult to ensure that one side of the street can remain open unless circumstances are extraordinary.

[staubio]

One other thing...

How the heck did this building get away with this?



This patio off the end of the building completely blocks the sidewalk. I encountered this on a walk last night and was reminded of it.

[chrizow]

 

i saw that all the time when i lived right there and didn't really think about it.  that's bizarre.  although, the space is probably more utilized as an outdoor break-space for that business than it is as a pedestrian path. 

[loftguy]

One other thing...

How the heck did this building get away with this?

The building was a part of the Burd & Fletcher Co's.  They manufactured boxes for the food industry (picture pot pie cartons).  This was a boxcar height loading dock and train tracks ended in the street, right at the point your picture was taken.  Massive rolls of paper were delivered into this facility.  When DST renovated this building, the dock was simply converted into a patio for the employees of the facility.

FYI, the trains came from the River Market, KC Southerns yard at 2nd and Wyandotte, where the apartments are under construction

[staubio]

The building was a part of the Burd & Fletcher Co's.  They manufactured boxes for the food industry (picture pot pie cartons).  This was a boxcar height loading dock and train tracks ended in the street, right at the point your picture was taken.  Massive rolls of paper were delivered into this facility.  When DST renovated this building, the dock was simply converted into a patio for the employees of the facility.

FYI, the trains came from the River Market, KC Southerns yard at 2nd and Wyandotte, where the apartments are under construction

Great background, thank you for taking the time to share. I won't feel wronged everytime I have to cross the street now.

[cdm2p]

An observations we have heard from our membership and committees:

There is no coordination when downtown projects tear up sidewalks. When permits are pulled for these things, there should be vigilance on the effect on pedestrians. Too often, both sides of the street have closed sidewalks, diverting pedestrians 3 blocks. This is a HUGE disruption for a pedestrian -- much more than a car going around the block. It shouldn't be difficult to ensure that one side of the street can remain open unless circumstances are extraordinary.

This shouldn't be an issue any more.  The city has no money for streetscape improvements.

[Gretz]

Am I the only person who has never had an issue crossing a street in this City?  My God.  I walk the streets of DTKC five - six days a week, and I have never paid an ounce of attention to these buttons.  When the light turns red and traffic stops, I cross the street.  When there are no cars, I cross the street.  When I see a car barreling down the street, I stay on the sidewalk.  What am I missing? 

I do all this too, but another thing to keep in mind is that we are technically breaking the law every time we cross even on a true green if we have not pushed the button and waited for an ENTIRE FUCKING CYCLE at EVERY GOD DAMN STREET.  Once in a while KCPD does a day-long pedestrian-focused law enforcement operation in a heavily pedestrian area like the plaza or downtown and, though the point is to protect pedestrian rights handing out tickets for cars failing to yield at cross walks etc. they do ticket Jaywalkers for walking on don't walk signs too. It's also dangerous because the drivers can see the don't walk signal and may assume (correctly according to the law) that they can make left and right turns without regard for the pedestrian.  Cross-walk buttons are a constant block by block slap in the face that says pedestrians are second class citizens.  Really chaps my ass.

[scooterj]

It was kind of funny yesterday, the looks I was getting from out-of-town pedestrians yesterday who were standing on the corner waiting for a WALK signal because no one got to the button in time for that cycle, as I walked anyway because the light was green.    I'd notice a few hesitantly follow my lead but most would choose to stand and wait.

[Tosspot]

It was kind of funny yesterday, the looks I was getting from out-of-town pedestrians yesterday who were standing on the corner waiting for a WALK signal because no one got to the button in time for that cycle, as I walked anyway because the light was green.    I'd notice a few hesitantly follow my lead but most would choose to stand and wait.

Same exact thing happened to me. We were all standing there until I had the great idea to see what color the traffic light behind us was. Once confirmed, I started off and about a dozen people followed. That's kind of funny I thought. No injuries, maiming, or dismembering occurred as a result, either. 

[WSPanic]

I do all this too, but another thing to keep in mind is that we are technically breaking the law every time we cross even on a true green if we have not pushed the button and waited for an ENTIRE FUCKING CYCLE at EVERY GOD DAMN STREET.  Once in a while KCPD does a day-long pedestrian-focused law enforcement operation in a heavily pedestrian area like the plaza or downtown and, though the point is to protect pedestrian rights handing out tickets for cars failing to yield at cross walks etc. they do ticket Jaywalkers for walking on don't walk signs too. It's also dangerous because the drivers can see the don't walk signal and may assume (correctly according to the law) that they can make left and right turns without regard for the pedestrian.  Cross-walk buttons are a constant block by block slap in the face that says pedestrians are second class citizens.  Really chaps my ass.

I've always been under the impression that the walking signals are there as guides to the pedestrian, but the green/yellow/red lights are the "law." Thus, the flashing "red hand" to tell you that it's time to get across or not go. I was always taught that pedestrians have the right of way at every marked intersection with a cross walk when the light is green.

Has anyone ever received a ticket for crossing with a green light - but against the "flashing hand?" I question whether it's illegal or not.

[KCPowercat]

I was in DC this weekend. Every light automatic with a countdown. Amazing.

[ComandanteCero]

Same exact thing happened to me. We were all standing there until I had the great idea to see what color the traffic light behind us was. Once confirmed, I started off and about a dozen people followed. That's kind of funny I thought. No injuries, maiming, or dismembering occurred as a result, either. 

interestingly, last First Friday i did the same thing, two folks followed me, while another group of 4 stayed behind, one lady in the group that stayed behind loudly said "you folks COULD wait for the LIGHT!".  It was really strange... this lady took it almost as an affront, as if folks were being rude by not paying attention to the walk sign even though the traffic light was with us and there no cars anywhere near... 

[DaveKCMO]

I was in DC this weekend. Every light automatic with a countdown. Amazing.

i made sure to pay attention to this while i was in chicago this weekend. every neighborhood we were in (loop, near north, lincoln park, south loop, oak park) default to WALK.

[AJoD]

Until moving here, I never realized a light would turn green and the walk signal wouldn't change.  The first couple times it happened, I think I just stared stupidly for several seconds and thought it was broken.  Now I just cross on green.  Or when there's no traffic, which happens more frequently than a signal change.  I'll occasionally push the button.

[Midtownkid]

I was in DC this weekend.

And you didn't call me!