New Chiefs Stadium

[phuqueue]

I don't think you're getting what I mean by that. I've tried explaining it 3 times now. I'm not gonna explain again how competition begets the best product.

We get what you are saying, it just doesn’t resonate. Having a competition to spend the most money on a stadium isn’t good for the city or the people or future development

Forget about the money part. Competition will result in the best quality stadium instead of a cheap bland Indianapolis style stadium. I assume that will require more money.

Btw I agree w/ you that $3 bil would be much better spent on the city needs. Except people are just too stupid to think that way is the problem.

Hard to "forget about the money part" when your initial statement on this was that you want KS to "drive up the cost." That statement that you keep trying to walk back from now honestly represented a more accurate view of how this actually works than any of your subsequent clarifications, because the "competition" here will be entirely about the public money on offer. I'm very aware of how economic competition works, aware enough even to understand that the concept is inapplicable here. MO and KS are not going to present complete, ready-to-build stadium designs to the Chiefs to decide which one is "better." MO will offer a billion dollars to build a stadium, so KS will offer $1.2B, so maybe MO will offer $1.5B, etc, until one side can't outbid the other anymore. It's not about getting a "better" stadium, it's just about spending more money on the project. And that extra money is not necessary to secure a Super Bowl or a Final Four or whatever other event (the "cheap bland Indianapolis" stadium has hosted both of those events). It's just unnecessarily piling more money into what is already a giveaway of public funds to the team's billionaire owners.

[AlkaliAxel]

Hard to "forget about the money part" when your initial statement on this was that you want KS to "drive up the cost."

You know precisely that the statement meant to get a better quality stadium, not to just take money for nothing. But you're going full flyingember so it's unarguable at this point.

[beautyfromashes]

I’m thankful the rolling roof idea never happened. It was a fun idea but would have been hideous and would have aged poorly.

A roof over arrowhead can be done with modern construction and materials these days and feel like a part of the stadiums overall aesthetics.

As for location, where it’s at works. I don’t think anything to do with arrowhead is a disaster.

The return from a Super Bowl in the city would have more than paid for the cost of that roof. It was the only money that would have been worth the return as part of the renovation package. Kauffman should have never been renovated and Arrowhead should have taken the whole TSC complex. The Royals wouldn't be in an almost decade long mire right now and the Chiefs would be better off as well.

[normalthings]

I’m thankful the rolling roof idea never happened. It was a fun idea but would have been hideous and would have aged poorly.

A roof over arrowhead can be done with modern construction and materials these days and feel like a part of the stadiums overall aesthetics.

As for location, where it’s at works. I don’t think anything to do with arrowhead is a disaster.

The return from a Super Bowl in the city would have more than paid for the cost of that roof. It was the only money that would have been worth the return as part of the renovation package. Kauffman should have never been renovated and Arrowhead should have taken the whole TSC complex. The Royals wouldn't be in an almost decade long mire right now and the Chiefs would be better off as well.

I don't agree. The economic impact of a SuperBowl is $400-500 million. So $5-10 million in tax revenue. We lack the weather or setup needed to get into the Final Four or Super Bowl rotation. Arrowhead needed to be renovated to win a SuperBowl.....

[beautyfromashes]

I don't agree. The economic impact of a SuperBowl is $400-500 million. So $5-10 million in tax revenue. We lack the weather or setup needed to get into the Final Four or Super Bowl rotation. Arrowhead needed to be renovated to win a SuperBowl.....

Don't be disingenuous. You know that the return is more than the tax to the city. I said to renovate Arrowhead too. The K reno was a colossal waste of money. Should have been DT all the way back then. At least our leaders and new owner seem to be turning that direction now. Can always count on KC to be decades too late.

[normalthings]

I don't agree. The economic impact of a SuperBowl is $400-500 million. So $5-10 million in tax revenue. We lack the weather or setup needed to get into the Final Four or Super Bowl rotation. Arrowhead needed to be renovated to win a SuperBowl.....

Don't be disingenuous. You know that the return is more than the tax to the city. I said to renovate Arrowhead too. The K reno was a colossal waste of money. Should have been DT all the way back then. At least our leaders and new owner seem to be turning that direction now. Can always count on KC to be decades too late.

I agree the Royals should have gone downtown but the cost to build a roof vs. 1 time benefit of hosting a Super Bowl isn't worth it imho

[DColeKC]

I don't agree. The economic impact of a SuperBowl is $400-500 million. So $5-10 million in tax revenue. We lack the weather or setup needed to get into the Final Four or Super Bowl rotation. Arrowhead needed to be renovated to win a SuperBowl.....

DCan always count on KC to be decades too late.

That's the truth.

[beautyfromashes]

Cost was $150M. Even if we take your return of $400-500M I don't see how that's not worth it.

[normalthings]

Cost was $150M. Even if we take your return of $400-500M I don't see how that's not worth it.

Comparing 2004 vs 2022 numbers? The ROI of doing a roof is low and it does nothing to benefit the lives of citizens other than gets a onetime event....

[AlkaliAxel]

Cost was $150M. Even if we take your return of $400-500M I don't see how that's not worth it.

Comparing 2004 vs 2022 numbers? The ROI of doing a roof is low and it does nothing to benefit the lives of citizens other than gets a onetime event....

It's possible especially nowadays that a new stadium could result in the Big 12 championship bi-yearly (or more), multiple bowl games, a CFB playoff, and probably multiple Final Fours.

[phuqueue]

Hard to "forget about the money part" when your initial statement on this was that you want KS to "drive up the cost."

You know precisely that the statement meant to get a better quality stadium, not to just take money for nothing. But you're going full flyingember so it's unarguable at this point.

Sure, you hoped that we would get a "really nice stadium" out of KS driving up the cost, but as I've consistently said, there is no point in having a "really nice stadium" at that extra cost. Maybe it's "unarguable" because you refuse to engage with that point. The fact is that even state of the art stadiums in bigger cities than KC only host a handful of additional events per year, and some of the specific events you want KC to host require a roof, not necessarily a "really nice stadium." If you want to argue that a new or renovated Arrowhead should have a roof so that it could land a Super Bowl or a Final Four, then fine, argue that. That's a defensible position. Hoping that KS will "drive up the cost" is not a defensible position, because the connection between that higher cost and this vaguely-defined "better quality" is purely speculative, and then the connection between "quality" and hosting additional events is tenuous at best. You're treating this like Monopoly money, but KC has real needs that are much more significant than building a new football stadium.

[earthling]

Chiefs CEO wants Arrowhead renovations instead of moving Chiefs
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... oving.html

A year away from making a decision.

[AlkaliAxel]

Chiefs CEO wants Arrowhead renovations instead of moving Chiefs
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... oving.html

A year away from making a decision.

Which means the Royals are prob even less than that

[aknowledgeableperson]

Chiefs CEO wants Arrowhead renovations instead of moving Chiefs
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... oving.html

A year away from making a decision.

Which means the Royals are prob even less than that

Or more. Especially the way the economy is going and interest rates increasing.

[DColeKC]

Think the Royals are very close to being ready to make some initial public announcements.

[alejandro46]

Lot of jumping to conclusions.

Agree running transit to TSC area would be a huge boost. As well as TIF/redeveloping the whole area around it, including condemning deteriorating buildings, adding apartments, hotels, houses, I mean there is a LOT of land in the vicintity.

We need to re-develop the area if TSC is there or not, even MORE so if not. Not sure why all the pundits were so crazy about saying LRT/BRT to Truman would be such a bad idea if only Chiefs or no stadiums were there. It may even be easier to re-develop if no stadiums were there, but I prefer that we keep the Chiefs.

We need to see how much money the Chiefs want to keep Arrowhead going, the State sounds like it want to chip in as well as Jackson and KCMO are aligned in keeping the Chiefs. I also think that if a well thought-out redevelopment proposal for TSC and new Kauffman, including transit went to voters it would pass but that's just a guess as we don't have numbers yet.

[DColeKC]

I don't understand the desire to develop the area around TSC with the Royals leaving. I also don't support a major public transportation spend to get to the area as it just makes no sense for NFL football. Especially not with parking revenue being a major factor.

I do wish visiting fans had some nicer things to look at when going to a game but let's be honest, they're staying downtown or the plaza, enjoying Kansas City and only venturing out to TSC on game day, for the game day experience. The lack of food options or bars/restaurants has helped create arguably the best tailgating in the league.

[normalthings]

I don't understand the desire to develop the area around TSC with the Royals leaving. I also don't support a major public transportation spend to get to the area as it just makes no sense for NFL football. Especially not with parking revenue being a major factor.

I do wish visiting fans had some nicer things to look at when going to a game but let's be honest, they're staying downtown or the plaza, enjoying Kansas City and only venturing out to TSC on game day, for the game day experience. The lack of food options or bars/restaurants has helped create arguably the best tailgating in the league.

Because TSC is on the way to the rest of Jackson County it’s a great Phase 1 destination for LRT. The massive surface lots owned by the government make it a prime redevelopment location or park and ride and the roadways were already built out to support 80k+ people coming in/out.

[AlkaliAxel]

I think objectively the two best spots for Chiefs really are somewhere around downtown or southern JoCo. I hate that the choice is either a dumpy suburb or a shopping mall dislocated from everything.

[alejandro46]

I don't understand the desire to develop the area around TSC with the Royals leaving. I also don't support a major public transportation spend to get to the area as it just makes no sense for NFL football. Especially not with parking revenue being a major factor.

I do wish visiting fans had some nicer things to look at when going to a game but let's be honest, they're staying downtown or the plaza, enjoying Kansas City and only venturing out to TSC on game day, for the game day experience. The lack of food options or bars/restaurants has helped create arguably the best tailgating in the league.

Because TSC is on the way to the rest of Jackson County it’s a great Phase 1 destination for LRT. The massive surface lots owned by the government make it a prime redevelopment location or park and ride and the roadways were already built out to support 80k+ people coming in/out.

Yep. The point is not to make tailgating worse or change it, the point is to activate the area for more than 8 football games plus Kenny Chesney concerts every year. In addition, it is the first major step to getting rail transit along the Rock Island corridor. People who are going to drive and park are going to drive and park. People coming from DT would probably Uber or even take an ATA bus anyways, so offering out of towners an option for transit would also help activate the area beyond gameday and support new businsses in the area. I know the Hunts have seen the booming development along the Streetcar line. We can do the same thing with BRT/dedicated streetcar connection to TSC.