KCRag Forum

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:29 pm

KCMOJoe89 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:05 pm

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:57 pm
It’s not blanket opposition to development, it’s opposition to the home plat entrance essentially at the door step, with 20k avg attendance 81 days a year, at two facilities with skeleton crews for security. Again, not the primary driver to the XR preference over EV, but it was definitely a factor.

This is interesting because the Royals renderings for EV had home plate at 9th and Cherry. Was this concern for the courthouse? Also, how hard would it be for the local feds to put in a request for funding security upgrades at a facility that would see increased surrounding traffic starting in 2028?

The top two outlined structures are the FAA/FTA building, and it’s associated parking garage, the southern is the Richard Bolling federal facility, and it’s associated parking infrastructure.

The cost that FPS, GSA, and by extension the American tax payer is liable for to fill one guard position at one of these facilities is astronomical (like between $180,000-$200,000 annually). Some of these facilities have dozens of positions. Adding points of high activity, as well as the associated security concerns that a large crowd would present that close to federal buildings is not some “throw a few dollars at it” issue. You’re talking about adding millions of dollars in new security that will only increase in cost annually, that will have to be scheduled irregularly. It’s not just tossing up a few cameras and a gate, it’s manning those positions, developing the secondary and tertiary security behind those elements.

The best security to the feds is having no issue at all. It’s easier for them to have empty lots or low rise development adjacent to the facilities that provide low traffic, and predictability. Crowds and gamedays would provide Chaos and security concerns constantly, and that’s a lot more than FPS or GSA would be willing to simply negotiate on. It’s a non-starter.

Thanks for pointing out the FAA building, I completely overlooked that. I still stand by the feds present obstacles, but cities overcome these all the time. I know this because I work at a company that specializes in building federal buildings and facilities. I also know the city should have consultants that help them plan around these obstacles and Kansas City has many. It would make sense to me if the Royals didn't have access to these resources. Also, it sounds like city leadership preferred EC over EV, so there wasn't much effort put into working out issues with that site.

State must be more lax about security. The MO court is on Oak just behind T-Mobile and very close to the Star press.

The St. Louis federal courthouse is two blocks from Busch.

As a federal employee in DC, I have always thought this might be a problem and totally buy that federal agencies started waking up when the EV site became more real. It can take a long time for the word to get to the right people, like years, but once it does, it can be a challenge to overcome. And once all the different agencies started talking about a common problem and going to the GSA, things start to get really complicated. That EV site is bordered by a federal courthouse, the FAA, the FTA, the huge federal building and then you have city and state government buildings in there too. Also, the parking lot east of the Bolling building would likely never go away unless the city builds the GSA a new garage. And I guess part of the stadium plan would include parking for the FAA since they would tear down their structure?

And you don’t think KC Tenants wouldn’t throw a fit over the tearing down of the EV affordable housing apartments?

And then you still have the whole mess with the east loop highway that needed to be rebuilt 30 years ago and probably won’t be fixed for another 30 years.

All this can probably can be overcome, even though most of EV is vacant, but it’s probably just as big of a headache as the Star site if not bigger and in a worse location.

It's too bad the IRS didn’t go to EV. Or the department of Agricultural, or the any of the other agencies spread across the city. The big miss was not bringing the EPA back to downtown KCMO from downtown KCK. I still can’t believe KC’s EPA office is now in an outer suburb.

GRID wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:49 am As a federal employee in DC, I have always thought this might be a problem and totally buy that federal agencies started waking up when the EV site became more real. It can take a long time for the word to get to the right people, like years, but once it does, it can be a challenge to overcome. And once all the different agencies started talking about a common problem and going to the GSA, things start to get really complicated.

Our government makes pretty much everything they do more complicated.

It's funny about the Feds concerns about safety. I know times are different now but I remember there was a post office in the building open to the public. Commercial businesses were at street level on the south side (one was a jeweler I knew). The public could come in and eat a cheap lunch at the cafeteria. One could go in and look at posted job openings and get an application. I could park along the south side of the building to pick up my wife after she got off work.

And now the latest news about the election.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/royal ... 8c86&ei=14
"Opponents of a tax to subsidize construction of a new downtown Kansas City baseball stadium have formally created a campaign committee, vowing to beat the Royals and stadium supporters at the polls on April 2.
“It doesn’t matter how much money they spend, the overwhelming majority of people in Jackson County are opposed to this,” said Tim Smith, campaign manager for the Committee Against New Royals Stadium Taxes. “We just need to inform voters when the election is and get the people out to vote.”"

Just curious but what would be the method by which the feds would block development on land they don't own, legally speaking.

FlippantCitizen wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:46 am Just curious but what would be the method by which the feds would block development on land they don't own, legally speaking.

Make your life a living hell trying to get their approval grounds

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:30 am The St. Louis federal courthouse is two blocks from Busch.

Federal Courthouse security is managed by the U.S. Marshals, not FPS.

aknowledgeableperson wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:32 am It's funny about the Feds concerns about safety. I know times are different now but I remember there was a post office in the building open to the public. Commercial businesses were at street level on the south side (one was a jeweler I knew). The public could come in and eat a cheap lunch at the cafeteria. One could go in and look at posted job openings and get an application. I could park along the south side of the building to pick up my wife after she got off work.

The post office, cafeteria, and restrooms on the main entry floors are still open to the public. People have to go through security screening similar to an airport if they’d like to utilize those though.

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:16 am

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:30 am The St. Louis federal courthouse is two blocks from Busch.

Federal Courthouse security is managed by the U.S. Marshals, not FPS.

Eagleton was also built prior to 9/11

The Royals and Chiefs have over a million dollars to spend on this campaign as of today but there’s been nothing. They’re trying to be sensitive to the tragedy our City experienced last week which I understand but they need to hit back at all the negativity out there. Of course they want a United front and it does feel insensitive for them to start talking about arrowhead renovations this week. It’s going to be a lot of information and campaigning in a short period of time.

The other opposition groups essentially have zero funding but they’re loud.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:53 am The Royals and Chiefs have over a million dollars to spend on this campaign as of today but there’s been nothing. They’re trying to be sensitive to the tragedy our City experienced last week which I understand but they need to hit back at all the negativity out there. Of course they want a United front and it does feel insensitive for them to start talking about arrowhead renovations this week. It’s going to be a lot of information and campaigning in a short period of time.

The other opposition groups essentially have zero funding but they’re loud.

KCT can activate a voting base that normally wouldn’t turn out for municipal elections like this though. That warrants some level of concern

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:04 am

DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:53 am The Royals and Chiefs have over a million dollars to spend on this campaign as of today but there’s been nothing. They’re trying to be sensitive to the tragedy our City experienced last week which I understand but they need to hit back at all the negativity out there. Of course they want a United front and it does feel insensitive for them to start talking about arrowhead renovations this week. It’s going to be a lot of information and campaigning in a short period of time.

The other opposition groups essentially have zero funding but they’re loud.

KCT can activate a voting base that normally wouldn’t turn out for municipal elections like this though. That warrants some level of concern

Im definitely concerned. I see you doing the lords work on social media. Keep it up! People need to understand the realities here as it relates to parking, traffic and downtown in general.

Parking traffic and downtown are easy to answer. What those of us pro downtown stadium need are the details for the royals and county with the plan and CBA and lease. Those are the questions people are proving at and filling in the gaps with their own (mis)information.

That’s the infuriating part, is the anti-downtown stadium types have hijacked the messaging coming from the EC skeptics and turned their message equally into an anti downtown stadium

KCMOJoe89 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:45 pm

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:29 pm

KCMOJoe89 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:05 pm

This is interesting because the Royals renderings for EV had home plate at 9th and Cherry. Was this concern for the courthouse? Also, how hard would it be for the local feds to put in a request for funding security upgrades at a facility that would see increased surrounding traffic starting in 2028?

The top two outlined structures are the FAA/FTA building, and it’s associated parking garage, the southern is the Richard Bolling federal facility, and it’s associated parking infrastructure.

The cost that FPS, GSA, and by extension the American tax payer is liable for to fill one guard position at one of these facilities is astronomical (like between $180,000-$200,000 annually). Some of these facilities have dozens of positions. Adding points of high activity, as well as the associated security concerns that a large crowd would present that close to federal buildings is not some “throw a few dollars at it” issue. You’re talking about adding millions of dollars in new security that will only increase in cost annually, that will have to be scheduled irregularly. It’s not just tossing up a few cameras and a gate, it’s manning those positions, developing the secondary and tertiary security behind those elements.

The best security to the feds is having no issue at all. It’s easier for them to have empty lots or low rise development adjacent to the facilities that provide low traffic, and predictability. Crowds and gamedays would provide Chaos and security concerns constantly, and that’s a lot more than FPS or GSA would be willing to simply negotiate on. It’s a non-starter.

Thanks for pointing out the FAA building, I completely overlooked that. I still stand by the feds present obstacles, but cities overcome these all the time. I know this because I work at a company that specializes in building federal buildings and facilities. I also know the city should have consultants that help them plan around these obstacles and Kansas City has many. It would make sense to me if the Royals didn't have access to these resources. Also, it sounds like city leadership preferred EC over EV, so there wasn't much effort put into working out issues with that site.

The Federal Transportation office and it's garages are privately owned buildings that they lease, feds don't exactly have jurisdiction on them except if a crime is committed on that property then it seems it could be considered a "federal enclave" in some cases, but as a private property, all the city zoning and building codes would apply for example, while local laws don't apply on federally owned properties is how I understand it.

Even in the case of the Chicago buildings I've been looking into (can't find the youtube video that I know I've watched on it), the buildings are owned by the GSA and judges have blocked the GSA from selling them to private developers for safety reasons.

https://www.preservationchicago.org/thr ... 2013-2022/

I'm not finding any precedent for how the Feds would have any power on what the city/county approve to be built on those properties unless they were threatening federal eminent domain to take the properties under their ownership.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:53 am The Royals and Chiefs have over a million dollars to spend on this campaign as of today but there’s been nothing. They’re trying to be sensitive to the tragedy our City experienced last week which I understand but they need to hit back at all the negativity out there. Of course they want a United front and it does feel insensitive for them to start talking about arrowhead renovations this week. It’s going to be a lot of information and campaigning in a short period of time.

The other opposition groups essentially have zero funding but they’re loud.

Jackson Co has ~300,000 households, so that's over $3.30 per household to spend. Seems that'd be more than enough money to send every household a post card, run some radio ads, TV ads, billboards, etc.

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:23 am

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:16 am

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:30 am The St. Louis federal courthouse is two blocks from Busch.

Federal Courthouse security is managed by the U.S. Marshals, not FPS.

Eagleton was also built prior to 9/11

The stadium was not.

Why haven’t the Chiefs released renderings or a plan yet if the vote is in a month?