KCRag Forum

^Some good ideas. Garage hidden but ensure access to Armour, Balt and/or 36th, not Main. Keeping US Bank fine but wouldn't be a major loss if replaced by something that has a bigger picture improvement, nothing iconic or historical about it but is subjective. Sustainable argument a bit of a stretch but depends on how marketable that office space can be if 'restored' - and if there's asbestos.

Neighborhood reaction will be interesting. MAC should perhaps put placeholder names on renderings in the retail spaces to entice excitement with neighborhood. If they can't use Target, Trader Joes directly, use similar names that imply. If they can build up positive reactions, might allow them to 'go bigger' (and maybe taller) with the project. They have the resources/experiences to if they want.

Earthing, you need to become aware that building demolition and construction are a MAJOR contributor to climate change. Not minor, MAJOR. I've read multiple articles over the past few years where scientists state that we have to stop demolishing perfectly-good buildings for seemingly improved versions -- because someone thinks they are unattractive.

The most sustainable building is one already constructed. No engineered timber-framed 6-story new building is ever going to be as sustainable as an existing 6-story building. Producing concrete, brick, and glass creates a lot of carbon.

I've also read experts say that virtually no building over 10-stories is sustainable, because they almost always are become more expensive, and inefficient with each additional floor.

The blitheness in which I see people dismiss this is very frustrating. Quit tearing shit down and building on parking lots! ! !

“Building Reuse almost always yields fewer environmental impacts than new construction when comparing buildings of similar size and functionality” and “…it takes 10 to 80 years for a new building that is 30 percent more efficient than an average-performing existing building to overcome, through efficient operations, the negative climate change impacts related to the construction process.”3

https://forum.savingplaces.org/blogs/fo ... ainability

^Noted, but hardly disastrous if this building were removed, especially if containing asbestos. Tearing things down with no plan resulting in long term surface lots is awful, tearing things down for something better isn't necessarily.

Plenty of buildings get asbestos remediation before being re-purposed.

^Fair enough. Not saying it should go but not a major loss if replaced with something better. This intersection can become something significant envisioning the 30 year big picture, halfway between DT/Plaza along free fare fixed rail with a major developer already heavily invested and a track record of improving the stretch as well as experienced in high quality TOD in other markets.

If US Bank building were historical/iconic or had some architectural value, I'd have a different position. The green purist position isn't something to ignore either, but you win some and lose some. Am indifferent in the case of this building given what this intersection could become. Not worth the green fight if replaced with something more substantial, more publicly accessible at the corner that is geared more TOD friendly. Ditto with the BK lot, all 4 corners really within 10+ years.

Will be interesting to see what scale MAC Properties means by 'investing significantly' in this site. Do they mean relative to rest of Armour investments or more on the scale of their bigger projects elsewhere. It could be fairly big considering free fare rail stop located halfway between DT/Plaza, the long term opportunity is pretty significant and the move they make with this project will define it.

OTOH, they may just build more lego block buildings if the neighborhood complains too much. Could become a new Midtown TOD oriented commercial center that has an identity with 3-5 towers, though many Midtowners probably won't 'get it' and perhaps reject anything of significant scale.

Midtown Exchange or Midtown Gateway might be a good name for a fairly major TOD center with perhaps Target, TJ's, etc. Realize downtowners would rather have those downtown but such retailers might like this more central location along streetcar. MAC shouldn't have any issue grabbing TOD friendly retailers here.

Wouldnt it have to have remediation if it was being torn down too? I can’t think of a better way to release a bunch of fibers than a wrecking ball.

FWIW, the rumor a few years ago was that BK had been approached and was, at that time, not interested in selling.

But I share the enthusiasm for getting rid of the standalone BK, replacing with a building and then, if warranted, simply putting the BK back in on the ground floor sans drive-thru.

Surely they'd sell at the right price, can't blame them for holding out. If MAC does have strategic plans for all 4 corners long term, would be risky to show vision renderings as of course they'd lose negotiation leverage to acquire. From BK lot owner's perspective, now that streetcar is truly a go they may be holding out for multiple interests and get a bidding war going. It's an uber primo corner given how much investment already along Armour, future streetcar stop, midway from DT/Plaza.

BK probably makes a good percentage of their revenue from that drive-up window -- maybe the majority of it. I doubt they would ever agree to a ground floor restaurant without a drive-up window. They would likely sell that property and move to another parcel where they could have a drive-up.

As a side note, I've often gotten my food faster by parking and ordering inside, getting my food and getting back in my car, instead of waiting in the drive-up line.

Thus, if Mac built them a new restaurant at a new location with two drive up windows, and a pull-away lane (so vehicles at second window don't get stuck behind vehicle at the first window), so they could process drive-up customers faster, then you might be able to persuade them to sell that parcel.

There's a bank drive thru next to 412 Nichols Rd inside the garage that can serve as inspiration

It could be converted into an outdoor patio if a later tenant doesn't need a drive thru.

FangKC wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:18 am
As a side note, I've often gotten my food faster by parking and ordering inside, getting my food and getting back in my car, instead of waiting in the drive-up line.

This is the trick. Americans are so habituated to the drive-thru that they'll sit in a line (even for coffee??) twelve cars long when there is zero waiting inside at the counter. It is something to behold, which I do, as I drive away carefully, scalding coffee in hand.

The BK lot owner will likely profit many magnitudes more than BK annual profits. Easy enough for BK to find another home in Midtown, such as near Taco Bell on Linwood if they insist on a drivethru, otherwise possibly negotiate cheap/free multiyear lease from MAC within existing location for a counter only store. There's significant opportunity to create an active pedestrian center here so BK operator may go for it. Methinks MAC should not cater to drivethru culture in any of their projects. And neither should Main moving forward given it will have a road diet. Would also be great to see QT on Main move somewhere else in Midtown by the time or soon after streetcar is operating (or operate a gas stationless version within a major project on their site).

earthling wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:52 am The BK lot owner will likely profit many magnitudes more than BK annual profits. Easy enough for BK to find another home in Midtown, such as near Taco Bell on Linwood if they insist on a drivethru, otherwise possibly negotiate cheap/free multiyear lease from MAC within existing location for a counter only store. There's significant opportunity to create an active pedestrian center here so BK operator may go for it. Methinks MAC should not cater to drivethru culture in any of their projects. And neither should Main moving forward given it will have a road diet. Would also be great to see QT on Main move somewhere else in Midtown by the time or soon after streetcar is operating (or operate a gas stationless version within a major project on their site).

This assumes the BK franchise owner is operating on logic. Moving to a new location on Main would make a drive-thru not possible due to the Main Street Overlay.

The road diet is definitely happening, but it's not that aggressive -- cars will still dominate and the sidewalks aren't getting any bigger except at bumpout streetcar stations.

BTW, does the BK operator own the site/lot or lease from someone else?

earthling wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:55 pm BTW, does the BK operator own the site/lot or lease from someone else?

Looks like own per KCMO GIS. Strategic Restaurants LLC out of San Ramon CA has same address as "JH Holdings."

Also last remodel permit was 1997.

https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/388749Z:US

Here is an interesting tidbit for the building on the SE Corner of 36th and Main - caddy corner to this Mac project. The building had been for sale. I don't see it currently for sale, but I also don't see a record of a sale. I noticed that on 7/23/20, the owners of LuLu's applied for a zoning compliance letter:

I need a Zoning Compliance letter to move forward with the purchase of the building at 3601 Main st. If I do not get approved Zoning, I will not purchase the building or relocate my restaurant. I have been operating Lulu's Thai Noodle Shop in KCMO since 2000. I have a Due Diligence period to accomplish this so time is of the essence. Thank you

The status of the zoning compliance letter is canceled, so I'm guessing they didn't move forward with the sale. But, I guess it is good to know that established restauranteurs are actively looking for locations in the area.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the owner of Lulu's is leaving the Crossroads because parking (despite having a deal with an adjacent garage and plenty of free street parking).

520 East Armour...


One of the four buildings of Troost and Armour...

Still not sure how Centric is getting away with not providing temp sidewalks at either site. Is KCMO not enforcing this anymore?