KCRag Forum

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:40 am People way overestimate the streetcar here. No one gives a fuck about that and it won’t happen for years. The Max is always probably quicker lol

As a MAX rider I agree but the streetcar is not at all overestimated in terms of the ecodev boost as it has helped transform downtown, helped tie it together and the investment interest now in Midtown is showing a boost specifically because of the streetcar. Hotels now build with little to no parking, wouldn't have happened w/out streetcar (and Uber combined). And there will still be many who will want to live along the streetcar line, not necessarily because they'll prefer it over MAX (bus haters will), but because so many amenities are along the line. It's more like a free horizontal elevator to different amenities.

However I'd like to see a true express MAX line overlay most of the streetcar line, or one along Broadway through Midtown and use streetcar for local use and tourists. Midtown would continue to get some downtown spillover if no streetcar expansion but the expansion will significantly boost Midtown development, magnitudes more. And a line that is under 10 miles will densify contiguous TOD than if building a 60 mile line out of gate, which would only promote commuter sprawl.

If anything, you're underestimating the significant role the streetcar is playing for downtown/midtown transformation. But the next step for KC to attract bigger ticket national developers is to get bigger ticket jobs, and a major university helps draw/maintain big ticket jobs.

FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:48 am Don't forget Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences. It's actually the largest medical school in Missouri, and the largest provider of physicians in Missouri, and second largest provider of physicians in Kansas.

There is a lot of room for growth and expansion there as well.

Great point, I have 2 very good friends who graduated from there. Just an oversight on my part. They have done a lot of nice expansion recently on their campus and hopefully it will spur even more development in the Old Northeast and along Independence Ave.

Also UMKC offers that attractive 6 year BA/MD program, and a highly respected schools of Dentistry and Pharmacy. The Med school is down around Hospital Hill, which is growing fats a furious all around.

Definitely some great catalysts in place to start such advancements if they wanted, which I think they should

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:31 am

earthling wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:22 am My guess it will become a spec building if new owner doesn't directly use. But the one remaining thing KC lacks for attracting outside biz is a major university within metro, which Nashville, Minneapolis, etc have. Now that the new airport and streetcar momentum is in gear, boosting UMKC/KU into a higher tier research university should be the #1 priority for the metro (well maybe #2 with #1 being violent crime/drug trade). Otherwise we just get back office jobs at best from outside biz looking at KC. And W&R building is pricey for backoffice jobs.

This is something I tend to champion when talking with my friends, business colleagues & peers. We really need to invest & look for opportunities to grow our university presence/reputation especially in research endeavors. STL has 2 highly ranked academic universities in Wash U & SLU in the city. Geographically they don’t have to compete with a major university that is basically located in the suburbs (KU). But growing the Stowers Institute, continued growth of KU Med School, then looking at ways to improve UMKC & Rochurst into nationally renowned academic schools would be awesome. Perhaps look at UMKC leaving the UM system & maybe elevating another school to UM status, similar to how UMSL fits into the landscape of STL. But this is a important aspect & I think is on those lists of BIG 5 ideas or whatever for the city

The inability to keep any type of HQ presence in KC really hurts the development of local universities due to the lack of corporate contribution and alliances. Having American Century being a local company shows how that can impact the city by the presence of the Stowers Institute and what positive impacts that has had on UMKC school of Medicine. KU being 35 miles away helps a lot too but it certainly isn't woven into the fabric of the city. Some of KC's corporate citizens have been great contributors to the city's growth and well being but others have been MIA.

I agree that it would be great to see UMKC boosted into a higher tier as a research institute but that kind of improvement generally comes from wealthy corporate donations and corporate contributions both of which are lean commodities in KC. I hate to see Missouri's descent into the anti-science Trump type conservatism as that also really works against upgrading the public academic institutions in the state.

St. Louis had to raise billions to elevate Washington University to its current position. I don’t think UMKC has enough alumni nor KC enough wealthy families for us to achieve that. If the KC richest families gave all of their money you’d not match the WashU endowment let alone have enough to match their capital investments.

We aren’t attractive enough to attract existing wealthy people other than the very rare countryside billionaire. Need to have a focus on developing local business so that they can get to the donator size. Of course that means creating great talent which required their donations in the first place.

flyingember wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:32 pm the drawing just shows a lack of thought as to what could actually be done in the project when they don't account for these things.

It certainly wasn't a serious proposal. I mentioned in the beginning that I hated the original design all along. Of course the foundations are not correct for this and the elevator placement wasn't even on my radar. As I said, this is aesthetically what I'd like to see.

forgive me for my 'lack of thought' sir.

I wouldn't be too concerned by this turn of events.

Undoubtedly, the long term lease is a liability on the W&R balance sheet. The acquiring entity is obligated to either sublease, utilize partially or fully, or pay whatever penalty clauses.

Playing the odds, Macquarie will locate any US operations in the building. The liability has been nested into the acquisition deal; they might as well utilize what they're paying for. Per The KC Star:

"The company also won up to $62 million in incentives from Missouri for relocating jobs to the state. Collectively, those incentives cover more than 70% of the costs of the building.

But the incentives are tied directly to the number of Waddell & Reed employees working at the site. If the company doesn’t move in — or if it doesn’t add the 900-plus jobs it promised — the city and state will claw those funds back."

With the facts stated; I'll stick my neck out and prognosticate:

a. Quietly, there is an architectural review in-work to engineer a multi-tenant approach to the building. I am guessing Macquarie will not utilize the entire space over the 15-year commitment.
b. The building will have immense interest; as it is the latest Class-A product which may be available to non-WR tenants
c. Class A product will continue to command a premium in the CBD as the workforce in the downtown is a major attraction for employers
d. Any impact to the downtown will not be this building. Strata and other speculative buildings will likely bear the burden of justification should this 260,000 SF product is made partially available to other interested parties.

-KA

Best case scenario is buyer sets up US HQ in this building moving some from other US acquisitions here and it doesn't become spec space on the market, so might give Strata a chance. OTOH, the flipside is they may find a loophole and fill most of the building on paper to keep the incentives but allow work-from-anywhere, meaning many people technically assigned to the building (per HR) but might actually be working from home anywhere in country with a visit to the office a couple times a year at best. If the case, in this scenario office space will be available over time and less chance of Strata happening.

According to Colliers, downtown had over 120K sqft negative Class A absorption so far this year so Strata may not happen for a while either way, not until absorption starts to pickup, which could be a while with WFA as a hot trend.

Midtownkid wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:14 pm

flyingember wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:32 pm the drawing just shows a lack of thought as to what could actually be done in the project when they don't account for these things.

It certainly wasn't a serious proposal. I mentioned in the beginning that I hated the original design all along. Of course the foundations are not correct for this and the elevator placement wasn't even on my radar. As I said, this is aesthetically what I'd like to see.

forgive me for my 'lack of thought' sir.

It wasn’t even an amateur proposal.

Putting a building of one style on top of a building of another style doesn’t even give the aesthetics you were going for.

earthling wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:37 am Best case scenario is buyer sets up US HQ in this building moving some from other US acquisitions here and it doesn't become spec space on the market, so might give Strata a chance. OTOH, the flipside is they may find a loophole and fill most of the building on paper to keep the incentives but allow work-from-anywhere, meaning many people technically assigned to the building (per HR) but might actually be working from home anywhere in country with a visit to the office a couple times a year at best. If the case, in this scenario office space will be available over time and less chance of Strata happening.

According to Colliers, downtown had over 120K sqft negative Class A absorption so far this year so Strata may not happen for a while either way, not until absorption starts to pickup, which could be a while with WFA as a hot trend.

I would think that they would have to be paying KCMO and MO income taxes to take advantage of the incentives.

Isn't the Garmin guy alone rich enough to make a dent in this situation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Min_Kao#Philanthropy

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:28 am Isn't the Garmin guy alone rich enough to make a dent in this situation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Min_Kao#Philanthropy

Probably not. We need $8 billion to match the WashU endowment and probably just as much to mass their capital expenses over the past few decades.

shinatoo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:25 am

earthling wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:37 am Best case scenario is buyer sets up US HQ in this building moving some from other US acquisitions here and it doesn't become spec space on the market, so might give Strata a chance. OTOH, the flipside is they may find a loophole and fill most of the building on paper to keep the incentives but allow work-from-anywhere, meaning many people technically assigned to the building (per HR) but might actually be working from home anywhere in country with a visit to the office a couple times a year at best. If the case, in this scenario office space will be available over time and less chance of Strata happening.

According to Colliers, downtown had over 120K sqft negative Class A absorption so far this year so Strata may not happen for a while either way, not until absorption starts to pickup, which could be a while with WFA as a hot trend.

I would think that they would have to be paying KCMO and MO income taxes to take advantage of the incentives.

They have to have a taxable payroll of ~$1.1 billion

earthling wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:37 am Best case scenario is buyer sets up US HQ in this building moving some from other US acquisitions here and it doesn't become spec space on the market, so might give Strata a chance. OTOH, the flipside is they may find a loophole and fill most of the building on paper to keep the incentives but allow work-from-anywhere, meaning many people technically assigned to the building (per HR) but might actually be working from home anywhere in country with a visit to the office a couple times a year at best. If the case, in this scenario office space will be available over time and less chance of Strata happening.

According to Colliers, downtown had over 120K sqft negative Class A absorption so far this year so Strata may not happen for a while either way, not until absorption starts to pickup, which could be a while with WFA as a hot trend.

Buy is 1 year into a very expensive NYC lease for a similar sized building. I doubt they break it.

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:28 am Isn't the Garmin guy alone rich enough to make a dent in this situation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Min_Kao#Philanthropy

Not a snowballs chance in hell they do anything major in downtown unless their conservative culture has changed since I've been there.

Highlander wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:47 pm

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:31 am

earthling wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:22 am My guess it will become a spec building if new owner doesn't directly use. But the one remaining thing KC lacks for attracting outside biz is a major university within metro, which Nashville, Minneapolis, etc have. Now that the new airport and streetcar momentum is in gear, boosting UMKC/KU into a higher tier research university should be the #1 priority for the metro (well maybe #2 with #1 being violent crime/drug trade). Otherwise we just get back office jobs at best from outside biz looking at KC. And W&R building is pricey for backoffice jobs.

This is something I tend to champion when talking with my friends, business colleagues & peers. We really need to invest & look for opportunities to grow our university presence/reputation especially in research endeavors. STL has 2 highly ranked academic universities in Wash U & SLU in the city. Geographically they don’t have to compete with a major university that is basically located in the suburbs (KU). But growing the Stowers Institute, continued growth of KU Med School, then looking at ways to improve UMKC & Rochurst into nationally renowned academic schools would be awesome. Perhaps look at UMKC leaving the UM system & maybe elevating another school to UM status, similar to how UMSL fits into the landscape of STL. But this is a important aspect & I think is on those lists of BIG 5 ideas or whatever for the city

The inability to keep any type of HQ presence in KC really hurts the development of local universities due to the lack of corporate contribution and alliances. Having American Century being a local company shows how that can impact the city by the presence of the Stowers Institute and what positive impacts that has had on UMKC school of Medicine. KU being 35 miles away helps a lot too but it certainly isn't woven into the fabric of the city. Some of KC's corporate citizens have been great contributors to the city's growth and well being but others have been MIA.

I agree that it would be great to see UMKC boosted into a higher tier as a research institute but that kind of improvement generally comes from wealthy corporate donations and corporate contributions both of which are lean commodities in KC. I hate to see Missouri's descent into the anti-science Trump type conservatism as that also really works against upgrading the public academic institutions in the state.

Great points and I hope that we start to see that KC Business leaders & wealth leaders continue to invest where they can but perhaps look at this as a unified effort, to help bolster the region overall. Perhaps we have enough charming people in the city to persuade some outside money to invest. Maybe buddy up with Buffet up the road, and have him bring his best friend Bill Gates along. You never never know, and I'm totally brainstorming fiction I know, but point is it takes these type of big ideas to try to light that spark. I also agree that MO as a state has leaned back to a more conservative run right now, after having some decent liberal leaning governors in the past 25 years with Carnahan & Nixon. The Holden/Blunt years were ok. Big shame is when Kander lost to the total grifter. But I feel STL & KC operate enough on their own to still warrant success with or without help from Jeff City. Certainly makes it easier but can be done despite them. Hopefully we can keep our civic and business leaders hungry for more and see the forest for the trees. More opportunities means good things for all

Becoming visible on the skyline heading north on 71 at Beacon Hill. One of the few places it will actually show on the skyline.

Moving on up.


Starting to make an impact on the Baltimore corridor.


Starting to make more of an impact from Walnut Street over the highway...


It will show up some from this view from the City Hall south lawn.


Finally, here is the lobby corner and the 14th and Wyandotte corner. Why does part of the garage have a much higher ceiling?

Also now visible in Fox 4 local news on the Signal Hill skyline cam. Will block out the Hotel KC from that angle.