Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

[beautyfromashes]

JoCo and the subrbs and building far above what the core is. We can build dense suburbs or sprawling suburbs so we may as well build dense,

Quick transport highways built the suburbs and drained the core. I don’t guess I see how quick transport rail will do the opposite.

[AlkaliAxel]

I’ve been seeing this alot lately that “suburbs here are building far more than the urban core is”

I think a big part of that is that there’s alot *more room* to develop in JoCo and Northland, and are still in their early stages compared to KC in years. These places have been around only half the time KC has. At a certain point KC wouldn’t have as much room to develop as easy as JoCo can. JoCo will eventually get to that point too. And btw, JoCo population growth is slowing down. KCMO’s is picking up.

[normalthings]

I’ve been seeing this alot lately that “suburbs here are building far more than the urban core is”

I think a big part of that is that there’s alot *more room* to develop in JoCo and Northland, and are still in their early stages compared to KC in years. These places have been around only half the time KC has. At a certain point KC wouldn’t have as much room to develop as easy as JoCo can. JoCo will eventually get to that point too. And btw, JoCo population growth is slowing down. KCMO’s is picking up.

JoCo is doing a lot of infill. Building in parking lots, bulldozing and redeveloping, it’s not just the far fringes.

[flyingember]

JoCo is doing a lot of infill. Building in parking lots, bulldozing and redeveloping, it’s not just the far fringes.

That would show the relative sale prices. There’s less profit due to lower prices and banks won’t give home loans outside of the range they can appraise the neighborhood at (same age, style, size, etc) and new homes can’t be built at what current homes are selling for in the urban core.

We lost some money on our last sale just over the appraisal, their bank compared to homes in a lower cost neighborhood despite ones around us being older and costing more per square ft. Then years later we put in to drop PMI on the new one and they appraised compared to some new homes in Riverside because everything around us was older again. Appraisals are voodoo that messes with home sales.

Infill fill either takes redoing a whole area (ex. Beacon Hill) so your sale is appraising against yourself or waiting on prices to go up and existing residents. We’re seeing the next round of infill as close enough to Beacon Hill likely partially for the appraisal simplicity. You can see this across the east side where most new builds is near other infill, people aren’t jumping around.

[DaveKCMO]

Why would they build out to TSC if we don’t even know if it’ll be hosting any teams in the next 10-15 years? I really don’t see why, out of all the options, we would pay to go to TSC when it’s long term existence isn’t even assured…?

Ugh. TSC just happens to be on the way to the Jackson County Suburbs

So irregardless of whether teams stay in TSC long term, they still will want to go through there because this is the path to the suburbs?

The most likely scenario is something gets built in phases while the station areas around the Rock Island have land use plans adjusted based on the current TOD study underway: https://mopublictransit.org/2019/01/15/ ... ationwide/

If I didn't post this earlier, a complete streets study of Linwood completed last year and has some cross-sections that show bike + MAX options: https://dashboards.mysidewalk.com/linwood-psp/

It's almost like we've been planning ahead the whole time...

[DaveKCMO]

Lots of TV coverage last night and this morning. Joint KCSA/KCATA press release here: https://kcstreetcar.org/east-west-trans ... car-study/

[WoodDraw]

Wait, so they’re announcing a potential study?

Why is this getting so much press if they can’t even fund a study?

[DaveKCMO]

Wait, so they’re announcing a potential study?

Why is this getting so much press if they can’t even fund a study?

It will be funded whether the additional partners commit to match or not. 80% federal already in hand.

[AlkaliAxel]

Ugh. TSC just happens to be on the way to the Jackson County Suburbs

So irregardless of whether teams stay in TSC long term, they still will want to go through there because this is the path to the suburbs?

The most likely scenario is something gets built in phases while the station areas around the Rock Island have land use plans adjusted based on the current TOD study underway: https://mopublictransit.org/2019/01/15/ ... ationwide/

If I didn't post this earlier, a complete streets study of Linwood completed last year and has some cross-sections that show bike + MAX options: https://dashboards.mysidewalk.com/linwood-psp/

It's almost like we've been planning ahead the whole time...

Which of the route would be the first phase then?

[WoodDraw]

Wait, so they’re announcing a potential study?

Why is this getting so much press if they can’t even fund a study?

It will be funded whether the additional partners commit to match or not. 80% federal already in hand.

Would be helpful to put that in the pr because that’s not what it said, but thank you.

Is this to position for federal infrastructure funding?

[normalthings]

Wait, so they’re announcing a potential study?

Why is this getting so much press if they can’t even fund a study?

It will be funded whether the additional partners commit to match or not. 80% federal already in hand.

Would be helpful to put that in the pr because that’s not what it said, but thank you.

Is this to position for federal infrastructure funding?

I think one of the press releases said they want to be able to put something forward for that purpose

[AlkaliAxel]

Is E-W or going over the River the first priority coming next for streetcar?

[Riverite]

Wherever the money is

[normalthings]

Is E-W or going over the River the first priority coming next for streetcar?

Which ever route can get funded first will get built first.

[normalthings]

Wait, so they’re announcing a potential study?

Why is this getting so much press if they can’t even fund a study?

It will be funded whether the additional partners commit to match or not. 80% federal already in hand.

Federal study grant or capital? Iirc, the NKC study got picked up in the news before each party had officially assigned funding for it.

Thank you Dave + team for leadership and dedicated over the past 2 decades.

[WoodDraw]

Yeah, I’m not trying to be an asshole either. So much credit to Dave and the team around for doing this.

Just asking a few questions

[brewcrew1000]

I don't understand why Armour is never considered for an E/W route. It's by far the densest part of the city. U could run it from Paseo to Broadway, up Broadway to 39/Rainbow

[FangKC]

I think the reason Linwood is the preferred corridor is because of its' potential for new development of apartment and commercial buildings along it and 31st Street (which would be part of the Linwood transit corridor) The idea is to use the streetcar to create higher density where it doesn't now exist.

Armour is for the most part, already developed and as you say among the "densest part of the city." In addition, Armour stops at Paseo and becomes 35th Street through neighborhoods of single-family houses. Linwood continues on to Van Brunt / Cleaver, and is more ideal for new, denser development along that eastern segment from Paseo to Van Brunt. The other factor is that Armour is within three blocks of Linwood, so would be considered part of the streetcar's rider catchment area .

Another fact is what is on each end of Linwood. On the west end is Penn Valley Community College and on the east end is the Veterans Hospital -- and potentially the Truman Sports Complex. Here are two large sources of daily riders, and potentially a third occasional source of riders.

The goal is to make Linwood as dense--or more--as Armour.

[alejandro46]

Very well put Fang.

I also want to see Streetcar on Independence Ave and even out via BRT or actual rail to Independence MO. But that area is already very built up and bus ridership is high. Our existing transit should be improved but it probably wouldn’t serve as a major catalyst as much new development as Linwood/31.

[normalthings]

Very well put Fang.

I also want to see Streetcar on Independence Ave and even out via BRT or actual rail to Independence MO. But that area is already very built up and bus ridership is high. Our existing transit should be improved but it probably wouldn’t serve as a major catalyst as much new development as Linwood/31.

Iirc, Linwood scored a few points below Main and maybe 10 above 31st in Next Rail. Shoot for the most likely winner first is the idea