Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

[alejandro46]

So, you'd either need a bridge over the railroad tracks or, if you took the existing bridge to the north, a new bridge over the Blue River?

Yes. Depends on if if you wanted to go to Leeds or not. It also may be cheaper to re-build the second Railroad bridge/cross under, but overall running sc through two railroad crossings is problematic.

The whole point of why I am and will continue to think Linwood to TSC is the best next route is because of the RIRR connection, even if it's just trails for now.



You'd also have to ask Dave or somebody in JackCo where RIRR started or if the ROW begins at the Blue River.

[FangKC]

They mean KU Med to Broadway or Main then north to Linwood.

So they’d build a station at State Line & 39th for KU med?

Yes.

[DaveKCMO]

If you think you can rely on an old cost estimate, you'd be wrong. The only thing that matters is what things cost now because the price only goes up.

[alejandro46]

$186m is the only and most recent number we have to go off of until this study is completed, hence the point of the study.

Accounting for 3% inflation is a standard even though things are out of whack this year.

I'd be around $225m in 2026 at that rate.

[FangKC]

Streetcar Looks West to KU Med in Proposed New Study

A one-mile streetcar extension that would take passengers west on 39th Street from the new Main Street line and across the border to the KU Med Center is the subject of a study that won Streetcar Authority support Thursday.
...
Hand said that an eventual streetcar stop on Rainbow Avenue would be the preferred option. That would take the extension through the heart of the medical district that includes University of Kansas healthcare professional schools and KU Hospital.
...
Gerend also raised the possibility of the streetcar line being extended east from Main on Linwood as far as Prospect, but that concept would not be explored in the new joint study. Still, it was welcomed by Authority board member Michael Collins.
...
Gerend raised the possibility a 39th Street extension could begin initially as a Bus Rapid Transit line and later phased to a streetcar.

https://cityscenekc.com/streetcar-looks ... new-study/

[DaveKCMO]

Ugh. That article will be corrected. It's an east/west study, Kevin!

[dukuboy1]

39th Street makes perfect sense for a East/West spur from main line over to KU MED. However 39th street once you cross SW Trafficway going to the West is super narrow. Basically one 1 of traffic with street parking on each side. If you removed the street parking it could work, much like they did with sections of Main as you head South out of downtown. Love the idea but would be curious how they address the parking, which is already an issue for the residents and businesses in the area. 39th street is awesome and this would be a great amenity for the area but fact is those businesses need parking for the people who get there from outside the neighborhood. Definitely solutions for garages and what not but the traffic and parking in an already very congested area would need to be addressed. As the street car will help alleviate some of that but it can also make the area more popular and thus bring in even more car traffic

[flyingember]

Love the idea but would be curious how they address the parking, which is already an issue for the residents and businesses in the area. 39th street is awesome and this would be a great amenity for the area but fact is those businesses need parking for the people who get there from outside the neighborhood. Definitely solutions for garages and what not but the traffic and parking in an already very congested area would need to be addressed. As the street car will help alleviate some of that but it can also make the area more popular and thus bring in even more car traffic

You're thinking on the scale of a few blocks. Look at the parking opportunties on the scale of 50 blocks.

People wouldn't just go to the area to park and ride 4-6 blocks, they could park downtown or at the Plaza or anywhere in midtown. It makes available 100,000+ parking spots to businesses along 39th so their businesses don't rely on how many cars can drive on a two lane road. for people who live nearby they just don't move their car and have greater access with no worries about parking.

The solution is to remove parking from a congested area and make people use other methods to get there, to not need 20 spots everywhere when the average is 5 cars in each. Especially don't need new garages with how much parking already exists.

Look at the Air Show. It became so popular the promoters couldn't possibly find parking at any regional airport for everyone so they make people park far away and shuttle them in. That's the model of the streetcar.

[dukuboy1]

Love the idea but would be curious how they address the parking, which is already an issue for the residents and businesses in the area. 39th street is awesome and this would be a great amenity for the area but fact is those businesses need parking for the people who get there from outside the neighborhood. Definitely solutions for garages and what not but the traffic and parking in an already very congested area would need to be addressed. As the street car will help alleviate some of that but it can also make the area more popular and thus bring in even more car traffic

You're thinking on the scale of a few blocks. Look at the parking opportunties on the scale of 50 blocks.

People wouldn't just go to the area to park and ride 4-6 blocks, they could park downtown or at the Plaza or anywhere in midtown. It makes available 100,000+ parking spots to businesses along 39th so their businesses don't rely on how many cars can drive on a two lane road. for people who live nearby they just don't move their car and have greater access with no worries about parking.

The solution is to remove parking from a congested area and make people use other methods to get there, to not need 20 spots everywhere when the average is 5 cars in each. Especially don't need new garages with how much parking already exists.

Look at the Air Show. It became so popular the promoters couldn't possibly find parking at any regional airport for everyone so they make people park far away and shuttle them in. That's the model of the streetcar.

I understand parking will be expanded with the street car adding other areas where people can hop on the street car and ride from a place they parked downtown, etc. What I am saying is that the area is already very congested now and very narrow street. The street car can help get people into the area but their will still be a large amount of people who will want to access the area directly via their car from other parts of the city that do no have access to street car line and or it is more convenient to drive direct. Say you live in JOCO. Why look to park on the Plaza to walk over to the street car and right it back North, than West to access dinning along 39th ST. Those people will still drive right to the area. Not always but it will happen more often. Plus waiting for the street car, etc. At any rate if they get rid of street parking, which I am in favor of, that helps create better access for traffic to go through. But takes away some parking in the area that I'm sure businesses will ask for a solution/remedy. Obviously KU Med has surface lots and such that could be converted to garages that the public could access, especially if that spot becomes a park & ride area for people to access the entire street car line from that area. This is not a simple 1/1 solution that street car makes everything better. The lost street parking will need to be discussed, but there are solutions for sure which IMO can make the whole area better and even more accessible for those who drive in and or use public transportation.

[phuqueue]

I'm also skeptical that many people will choose to park downtown just to take the streetcar to 39th, but I'm sick of urban planning around where everybody will park. The solution to the "lost street parking" (perhaps better known as recovered street space) will be that people park a block or two farther away than they used to and grumble about the extra three minutes of walking to their destination. It does not need to be discussed, though it surely will be discussed ad nauseam anyway.

[flyingember]

I'm also skeptical that many people will choose to park downtown just to take the streetcar to 39th, but I'm sick of urban planning around where everybody will park. The solution to the "lost street parking" (perhaps better known as recovered street space) will be that people park a block or two farther away than they used to and grumble about the extra three minutes of walking to their destination. It does not need to be discussed, though it surely will be discussed ad nauseam anyway.

People park at Union Station to ride to the river market when there's free parking at 9th St.
People sometimes do illogical things.

A good example is the Plaza has tons of parking. Most days people will drive and park as close as possible. During the Plaza Art Fair they'll ride as much as needed becaue close isn't all that close during it.

For parking we don't need the streetcar for off peak demand to be honest. The benefit is it helps us to make better use of existing parking during peak demand. Most off peak use is encouraging TOD and carless living downtown, not parking shifting.
If 39th St would benefit in the same overall sense both peak and off peak and can drive enough ridership then it's worth building.

Losing a few parking spots shouldn't be even a minor consideration. If person X, a car commuter, needs to park a little further away and ride the train in to go to 39th then so be it.

[herrfrank]

I like the idea of 39th and Rainbow as the terminus, but I would suggest that the streetcar proceed west from Main along Westport Road and 43d, then turn north either at State Line or Rainbow (or directly through the KUMC campus -- whatever that street is -- Booth?). Westport/ 43d is much wider than 39th.

[normalthings]

T Gerend tweeted that it Sounds like Linwood is the most likely east candidate. Dave tweeting that this study will look east to TSC and Rock Island Corridor. “A new realization of the county’s trail + transit concept on the Rock Island ROW”

[AlkaliAxel]

Why would they build out to TSC if we don’t even know if it’ll be hosting any teams in the next 10-15 years? I really don’t see why, out of all the options, we would pay to go to TSC when it’s long term existence isn’t even assured…?

[normalthings]

Why would they build out to TSC if we don’t even know if it’ll be hosting any teams in the next 10-15 years? I really don’t see why, out of all the options, we would pay to go to TSC when it’s long term existence isn’t even assured…?

Ugh. TSC just happens to be on the way to the Jackson County Suburbs

[AlkaliAxel]

Why would they build out to TSC if we don’t even know if it’ll be hosting any teams in the next 10-15 years? I really don’t see why, out of all the options, we would pay to go to TSC when it’s long term existence isn’t even assured…?

Ugh. TSC just happens to be on the way to the Jackson County Suburbs

So irregardless of whether teams stay in TSC long term, they still will want to go through there because this is the path to the suburbs?

[normalthings]

[shinatoo]

Why would they build out to TSC if we don’t even know if it’ll be hosting any teams in the next 10-15 years? I really don’t see why, out of all the options, we would pay to go to TSC when it’s long term existence isn’t even assured…?

Ugh. TSC just happens to be on the way to the Jackson County Suburbs

So irregardless of whether teams stay in TSC long term, they still will want to go through there because this is the path to the suburbs?

Yes, plus a stop there will be an impetus for redevelopment if the teams leave.

[beautyfromashes]

So irregardless of whether teams stay in TSC long term, they still will want to go through there because this is the path to the suburbs?

Yeah, it’s dumb. I’ve never understood the desire by urbanists to build rail to the suburbs. Why make it easier to live further and further out? The goal should be to push/incentivize people to live in a closer, denser core.

[normalthings]

So irregardless of whether teams stay in TSC long term, they still will want to go through there because this is the path to the suburbs?

Yeah, it’s dumb. I’ve never understood the desire by urbanists to build rail to the suburbs. Why make it easier to live further and further out? The goal should be to push/incentivize people to live in a closer, denser core.

JoCo and the subrbs and building far above what the core is. We can build dense suburbs or sprawling suburbs so we may as well build dense,