KCRag Forum

normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:49 pmI think it’s the same issue. The bike path can’t continue south without having to cross traffic lanes from the Broadway ramps.

I can’t imagine bridging a bike lane over car traffic would be that much of an issue. Certainly not enough to throw out an idea

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:54 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:49 pmI think it’s the same issue. The bike path can’t continue south without having to cross traffic lanes from the Broadway ramps.

I can’t imagine bridging a bike lane over car traffic would be that much of an issue. Certainly not enough to throw out an idea

This is traffic that gets up to 50mph before it's north of 3rd St today. It's an issue.

And you're not thinking in 3D


Where do you put it to the south of 6th to reach 12th? The NB lanes are right up against the bluff. Your blue line is I-35 today.
Ignoring the need to elevate them, the SB lanes have I-70 entering from that side to cross under.

It also means redesigning the spans crossing over I-70 because you have a different load profile. (guessing some numbers) It takes the bridge from ~96 feet wide to 110 feet wide, a 15% change.

You're probably talking a 10-15% cost increase well after everyone has priced projects and selected options based partially on this.


If anything, the best plan for a second bike path would be much simpler. Split off, go over the offramp down to 5th and connect to Case Park just north of the dog park. The elevations would create a much simpler plan and it could be built after the fact because it's mostly independent of the rest of the project. It can be on it's own structure.

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:27 pm Since the new bridge is connected into 35, couldn't the ped/bike connection be extended to pass by West Terrace Park? It could even work if the old bridge stays.

Blue is ped/bike, red is car traffic, black is new bridge



Architectural rendering.

While working on uncovering and cleaning up what is left of those stairs I couldn't help but fantasize about that possibility, especially when plans for a new bridge came out. But, it will probably have to stay a fantasy. I wish the whole west loop would get buried as first imagined in the 1950s. Restore our western bluff park and Kersey Coats Drive etc. But too much money for a aesthetic/recreation upgrade.

And put in another 9th st. incline of some other funicular to connect Quality Hill and the West Bottoms. Like an Euro lower town and upper town.

moderne wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:48 pm And put in another 9th st. incline of some other funicular to connect Quality Hill and the West Bottoms. Like an Euro lower town and upper town.

Like the 12th St incline?

How many bikes and pedestrians do we think will go to fucking Harlem every day?

Unless the cost is 0, I can’t figure out the rationale here.

It would be a cool attraction bit yeah it would have to be part of a bigger plan with nkc to make much sense financially.

Harlem is largely known as a place where sex offenders can peacefully live.

There have been calls to develop it, but I don’t see any of that here.

Whatever “demand” there is for this should be met by the new bridge.

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:59 am How many bikes and pedestrians do we think will go to fucking Harlem every day?

Unless the cost is 0, I can’t figure out the rationale here.

A lot of bikers and runners use the road around the DT Airport for recreation. I think that is what they really want to connect to downtown. I think it's a great idea.

We need a better recreation track than the airport road.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:02 pm We need a better recreation track than the airport road.

Riverfront trail should be better able to compete with the new bike bridge and eastern extension they are doing

Agreed.

I really want to like keeping the buck bridge but like others have said it needs to be a part of a larger northland project. It's most likely too expensive to just be a scenic overlook

I mean the new bridge is being built with bike lanes, yes?

You can’t convince me there is enough traffic to even keep those full.

As someone that runs around these areas, I’ve never once thought “we need a dedicated bridge”.

I love the idea, just not willing to spend money on it.

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:31 pm I mean the new bridge is being built with bike lanes, yes?

You can’t convince me there is enough traffic to even keep those full.

As someone that runs around these areas, I’ve never once thought “we need a dedicated bridge”.

I love the idea, just not willing to spend money on it.

Agreed

We don't know the money aspect though is the only reason I'm not ready to dismiss the idea totally

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:35 pm We don't know the money aspect though is the only reason I'm not ready to dismiss the idea totally

Demolition of a steel bridge can’t be cheap. Not sure keeping it wouldn’t cost much more.

My worry is ongoing maintenance costs. I'm sure MO could sell it to someone cheap and offload it. Guessing they would give it to the city for nothing.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:25 am My worry is ongoing maintenance costs. I'm sure MO could sell it to someone cheap and offload it. Guessing they would give it to the city for nothing.

This website says maintenance is around 4% of construction cost per year.

https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/03/ ... nce-costs/

Keeping the old Broadway bridge for bike/ped is a wonderful idea! What's really great is it comes from a mayor who is considered anti-development. Developing the riverfront as a front door to the River Market and rest of downtown should take precedence over new ballparks and south loop caps. And the mayor's bridge idea could be a great starting point.

I read a concern here about the approaches on the River Market side. I see those going away completely just as the HOA's approaches will go away when it's lowered to Third and Cherry. The new downtown approach could begin at Third and Broadway and the Harlem approach would be the old municipal airport exit.

I agree this has to be part of developing Harlem and turning the left bank levees into bike/ped promenades. It should also be part of turning the ASB's upper level into the streetcar crossing as well as another bike/ped crossing. Apartment buildings in Harlem could have their first levels the same elevation as the levee with parking below. I think the views of downtown would be great and would only get better as the River Market continues to develop. A lot of scrub trees need to come down on both sides of the river.

normalthings wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:22 am

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:25 am My worry is ongoing maintenance costs. I'm sure MO could sell it to someone cheap and offload it. Guessing they would give it to the city for nothing.

This website says maintenance is around 4% of construction cost per year.

https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/03/ ... nce-costs/

The $50,000-100,000 a year or so in maintenance plus cost for new abutments could be used for a Harlem park project that connects into the already funded new Broadway Bridge bike and pedestrian way.

It also could be used for active programming at our existing parks around downtown. I would really like to see investment in our downtown and east side parks instead of adding nee soace. Kessler is in dire need of renovation and additional amenities.