Downtown Baseball Stadium

[GRID]

Random question, what was there before the glass KC Star building? Was it just an empty lot?

Same shit that's in the rest of the east crossroads. 80% parking and a few little barely used low rise industrial buildings.

That's straight up a lie

Half those buildings were gone when the Star started tearing down the rest. I can't say who or why they were torn down. Maybe the Star took them down earlier. I worked on the site about a year before the star press went in.

[GRID]

Go check the history on google earth. 1996, half that block was parking lots and half the buildings in that pic are gone. Long before the Star went in.

And that brings up a point. Do you guys realize that the people that have destroyed the building stock in that part of the crossroads are the very people that do business there and have a vested interest in not tearing down buildings for parking???

Today it looks like nearly every building down there has its own dedicated parking lot and those lots used to be a building in the 80s. So the businesses themselves have probably done most of the recent damage.

One way to fix that is to have garages nearby on empty lots? So every little storefront doesn't have to tear down the building next door to create a 20 space lot.

[WoodDraw]

I feel like we're talking across eachother. I don't think they're going to build garages, I think they're going to sit on empty lots.

[GRID]

I feel like we're talking across eachother. I don't think they're going to build garages, I think they're going to sit on empty lots.

But let's say the stadium goes in and long with it you now have a few large public garages incorporated into the stadium project. One north of it, one block east etc.

Now you have more public parking so some sandwich shop doesn't have to have its own freaking surface lot.

Combine that with that fact that a stadium will bring a ton of people to surrounding storefronts by foot on game days, so they won't have to depend 95% of their customers driving to their business anymore, it might be more like 40% and those people can find parking on the street or in a garage less than a block away.

Would this not lead to less buildings being torn down?

Like I said, it's the crossroads businesses themselves that have done most of the damage due to the parking needs of their customers or employees. Especially businesses like churches who have peak demand for parking for like three hours a week and industrial uses that have cleared buildings to park work trucks or store shit.

A stadium would change the business types of the area and how the customers would get to those businesses if it creates a more urban area.

That are of downtown IS NOT URBAN anymore. It hasn't been since the 90s.

Do guys think that KC does not have the capability to build one dense mixed use district? I mean, I'm pretty pessimistic about KC development, but even I think this can be done if you build it into surrounding areas that have a chance to densify. It sure as hell is not happening in east village, I know that. Not with a stadium. If you want EV to be urban, fill all those blocks with residential, not a stadium. And even then, it will struggle to be more than just a few apartment complexes east of the government park. It's too isolated from any other real neighborhood.

[TheLastGentleman]

Go check the history on google earth. 1996, half that block was parking lots and half the buildings in that pic are gone. Long before the Star went in.

Point taken, sorry

September 1991


July 2002


December

[TheUrbanRoo]

Was "urbabroo" even born when kcp made this site?


I've said I'm okay with getting rid of the star. What I'm not okay with is what is "proposed" now. I feel like people are missing the forest for the trees.

I hope you guys know I'm just messing with you

[WoodDraw]

I feel like we're talking across eachother. I don't think they're going to build garages, I think they're going to sit on empty lots.

But let's say the stadium goes in and long with it you now have a few large public garages incorporated into the stadium project. One north of it, one block east etc.

Now you have more public parking so some sandwich shop doesn't have to have its own freaking surface lot.

Combine that with that fact that a stadium will bring a ton of people to surrounding storefronts by foot on game days, so they won't have to depend 95% of their customers driving to their business anymore, it might be more like 40% and those people can find parking on the street or in a garage less than a block away.

Would this not lead to less buildings being torn down?

Like I said, it's the crossroads businesses themselves that have done most of the damage due to the parking needs of their customers or employees. Especially businesses like churches who have peak demand for parking for like three hours a week and industrial uses that have cleared buildings to park work trucks or store shit.

A stadium would change the business types of the area and how the customers would get to those businesses if it creates a more urban area.

That are of downtown IS NOT URBAN anymore. It hasn't been since the 90s.

Do guys think that KC does not have the capability to build one dense mixed use district? I mean, I'm pretty pessimistic about KC development, but even I think this can be done if you build it into surrounding areas that have a chance to densify. It sure as hell is not happening in east village, I know that. Not with a stadium. If you want EV to be urban, fill all those blocks with residential, not a stadium. And even then, it will struggle to be more than just a few apartment complexes east of the government park. It's too isolated from any other real neighborhood.

Meh, I don't think we're far apart. I don't think a parking garage is what is keeping a sandwich shop from going in next door. I think the opposite will likely happen.

Shoot me a pm when you're in KC if you want. We can talk about DC and crossroads over there.

[GRID]

Shoot me a pm when you're in KC if you want. We can talk about DC and crossroads over there.

Just so you know, nothing I post is directed at anybody personally, even if I quote you. I went on a rant there, but none was really directed at you or your ideals.

I think we are all kind of killing time ranting back and forth. Nobody really has a clue what might go down except maybe DColeKC. And he (or she?), is getting an earful of feedback on both sites, so maybe some of this will work its way to those who are actually designing and building this.

If the stadium does go to EV, I think the next priority will be what to do with the Star press building. I have this feeling that thing is going to be there for a while and continue to deteriorate and even if it's torn down, it will just be another gaping hole, only far more visible and a bigger problem for downtown than the current EV parking lots.

Development was not exactly fast before this year, but it looks like things have come nearly to a complete halt. It could take 15 more years to develop a key site like the star building if the stadium doesn't go there.

Anyway, I don't think I totally disagree with anybody here. We are all dreaming of our own ideas till we are told our ideas are no longer valid.

[GRID]

Point taken, sorry

No worries, I mean it was still a loss to tear down what was left to build something that was out of date the day it opened.

If the stadium doesn't go there, I really hope it can be repurposed rather than torn down. I'm afraid it could take decades to develop that site if the stadium doesn't go there with how long it takes to develop high profile sites in KC. Most never develop at all for some reason.

[WoodDraw]

Shoot me a pm when you're in KC if you want. We can talk about DC and crossroads over there.

Just so you know, nothing I post is directed at anybody personally, even if I quote you. I went on a rant there, but none was really directed at you or your ideals.

I think we are all kind of killing time ranting back and forth. Nobody really has a clue what might go down except maybe DColeKC. And he (or she?), is getting an earful of feedback on both sites, so maybe some of this will work its way to those who are actually designing and building this.

If the stadium does go to EV, I think the next priority will be what to do with the Star press building. I have this feeling that thing is going to be there for a while and continue to deteriorate and even if it's torn down, it will just be another gaping hole, only far more visible and a bigger problem for downtown than the current EV parking lots.

Development was not exactly fast before this year, but it looks like things have come nearly to a complete halt. It could take 15 more years to develop a key site like the star building if the stadium doesn't go there.

Anyway, I don't think I totally disagree with anybody here. We are all dreaming of our own ideas till we are told our ideas are no longer valid.

No, I took everything you said in good faith.

I think what Dave said about the tendency towards big developer controlled multi-blocks is important, but also if we have developers happy to sit on properties in perpetuity, that's an issue to.

I've been a skeptic of the ev, but I'm willing to let let them make a theory of the case.

In the EC I don't see it at all. You've already pointed out flaws and i think a stadium will only perpetuate them.

If we can just tax the fuck out of surface lots I could be convinced.

[dnweava]

Before the stadium opens, the city should make a new zoning rule that bans new surface parking lots in the streetcar district and increase the taxes on the existing ones.

[KC_Ari]

Before the stadium opens, the city should make a new zoning rule that bans new surface parking lots in the streetcar district and increase the taxes on the existing ones.

At the very least don't approve demolitions without a solid replacement plan in place. But doing something to make surface parking not economically viable with a tax or otherwise would be a lot to assuage many of the fears this board has in regards to the EC.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

If we can just tax the fuck out of surface lots I could be convinced.

Surely we can all agree on this!

[TheUrbanRoo]

We do all agree on that. I think once this site is secured we should really pressure the city hard on that one. There’s no downside.

[KCPowercat]

Before the stadium opens, the city should make a new zoning rule that bans new surface parking lots in the streetcar district and increase the taxes on the existing ones.

At the very least don't approve demolitions without a solid replacement plan in place. But doing something to make surface parking not economically viable with a tax or otherwise would be a lot to assuage many of the fears this board has in regards to the EC.

Land tax

[mourban]

If we can just tax the fuck out of surface lots I could be convinced.

Surely we can all agree on this!

It won’t happen, but a land value tax or tax on parking lots versus the sales tax would be a way better way to fund the two stadiums. (Stadia?)

[KCPowercat]

If we can just tax the fuck out of surface lots I could be convinced.

Surely we can all agree on this!

It won’t happen, but a land value tax or tax on parking lots versus the sales tax would be a way better way to fund the two stadiums. (Stadia?)

would be awesome but think that would take a state level change ? I guess we put fees on surface lots for streetcar so could maybe do that again?

[DColeKC]

If we can just tax the fuck out of surface lots I could be convinced.

Surely we can all agree on this!

Sign me up.

[mourban]

Surely we can all agree on this!

It won’t happen, but a land value tax or tax on parking lots versus the sales tax would be a way better way to fund the two stadiums. (Stadia?)

would be awesome but think that would take a state level change ? I guess we put fees on surface lots for streetcar so could maybe do that again?

I looked into this a long time ago and I think a true land value tax would require a state law change, but I think you could reverse the rates for built property (decrease it) and increase the land portion of property tax assessments.

I also think you can tax parking lots and vacant buildings without changing state law. That’s a policy that most here could support.

[GRID]

Seems like this parking lot issue is a problem in most American cities. I wonder if there is a city that has been successful with getting rid of them (or keeping more from happening).

I'm not sure there is. Seems like the only cities that can overcome this problem are the very fast growing cities and or dense cities and KC is neither of those.

I would support eminent domain to acquire them and sell the land to developers at a discount. or the city can build affordable housing on the land.