Downtown Baseball Stadium

[bspecht]

The Royals and Frank White are basically 5 million apart. The Royals have committed to 20m a year back to the county, Frank White wants 25m.

Getting to a more finalized CBA is likely the biggest hurdle, currently. Those conversations were quite delayed.

[Highlander]

It really seems like a ton of people in KC are fine with losing the Royals if you read a lot of comments on social media. That's really sad.

Any city can have an NFL team. There are several smaller than KC with NFL teams. But if KC loses the Royals, it will be official that the city has fallen down a tier or two in city ranking and KC will never ever get MLB back. I'm sure few care though.

A lot of people rarely think anything through. The unfortunate facts of letting the Royals leave in a fit of defiance about a downtown stadium would be:

1. Most Kansas Citians would would no longer have the ability to see live professional sports in their city. Chief's tickets are hard to get and too expensive for most. Royal's games are affordable and something you can do with friends/family whenever you want during the summer. MLS still available but the number of people interested in that is far smaller.

2. Kansas City would never get another MLB team. The demographics are moving quickly in the wrong direction for KC and there are just too many faster growing and larger cities that don't have teams that would love to have the Royals or any expansion possibilities that might present themselves after the Royals are long gone from KC.

Unfortunately, small market franchises have to do more and ultimately pay more to keep their teams. Unfair but baseball doesn't have the more egalitarian mindset of football. It's every city for itself in baseball.

[Chris Stritzel]

I still have a hard time believing the Royals would pack up and flee to Nashville if the vote fails. People act like they don't have a fanbase here but fail to recognize that when they play well, the base turns out. And when they win, like 2015, 800,000 people attend the victory celebration.

When you up and move to another city, you have to deal with the headache of leaving your loyal fanbase for a new territory where people might not be interested in a new team for years. You have to create new relationships with whatever jurisdiction you move to (in the case of many on here saying Nashville, Davidson County leadership). And that still doesn't include the uphill battle for a stadium elsewhere. Not many people are thrilled with the new Tennessee Titans stadium, but I believe the incentives for that don't/didn't have to go up to a vote by DavidsonCounty residents. I think the City Council decided that one.

My point is that the Royals have a fanbase here. Yes, they've played like crap in recent years and that's led to an erosion in attendance. Additionally, those saying they're fine with the Royals leaving town do so because they're super narrow-minded and shortsighted. They say things like this, but if you dive into their social media profiles, they don't live in Jackson County or the City of KC. Quite a few don't even live in KC and just want to comment for the hell of it.

Chicagoans refused to give up on the Cubs for literally decades. They refuse to give up on the White Sox as well. One could argue that's because Chicago is bigger, but product on the field, and location, matters a whole lot more at the end of the day. If you have a good product on the field, people will come. If you're well positioned in your city, people will come even if you play somewhat poorly because it's something to do. And when you stay in town for decades on end, like the Cardinals and Cubs, you become part of a city's legacy.

Lastly, I doubt John Sherman would be the one to pack up the team and leave. If every single option fails, even those we aren't aware of, could he hypothetically sell the team and take a loss? Yes. But I don't think he wants to do that. From the times I've encountered him and chatted with him, he seemed extremely committed to KC and getting a deal done that allows the Royals to play for decades to come.

[KCPowercat]

Royals and Chiefs aren't going anywhere. Unless Sherman bounces from the ownership and disbands that whole group.

[Cratedigger]

Royals and Chiefs aren't going anywhere. Unless Sherman bounces from the ownership and disbands that whole group.

+1

The group was intentionally put together with passionate Kansas City first people top to bottom.

Now if this fails does that open the door to conversations about selling the team…? I don’t know

[TheSmokinPun]

Don't forget Mahomes ownership stakes.

[DColeKC]

I also think the Royals leaving under this current ownership group is a long shot and the team won't use that as a strategy.

They need to focus on the idea that this new stadium and location is meant to help improve the product and consistency on the field. It's not about shiny new toys for rich people, it's about doubling down on the teams commitment to this city and its fans.

If we use the MCI terminal as a good example, it had so much negative pushback but it's very hard to sit here now and say it wasn't the right choice. It's been a major win, yet there are still a small percentage of people who want the old terminal back. Those same people make up the group, "save the k".

[KCPowercat]

I think the only people left who want the old terminal are ones who don't fly and had to pick people up and plop down at the curb waiting. Off topic but I had to say it.


Lot of talk about asking for a vote without a location, which I agree with, but there is a difference between authorizing the vote now versus the actual vote in April. If they don't have a site by the time I step into the ballot box, I'm much more likely to vote no and chiefs and royals both know that so it's dumb to hold it up for that reason.

Now some other things JaxCo is asking for maybe legit and based on posts earlier sounds like will be hammered out soon.

[Highlander]

I also think the Royals leaving under this current ownership group is a long shot and the team won't use that as a strategy.

They need to focus on the idea that this new stadium and location is meant to help improve the product and consistency on the field. It's not about shiny new toys for rich people, it's about doubling down on the teams commitment to this city and its fans.

If we use the MCI terminal as a good example, it had so much negative pushback but it's very hard to sit here now and say it wasn't the right choice. It's been a major win, yet there are still a small percentage of people who want the old terminal back. Those same people make up the group, "save the k".

Well almost the same group. I think Jackson County is a different beast than KC proper (which is the group that approved the airport). We have been over this before but it's the demographic/political make-up of the metro's eastern burbs that make getting anything downtown problematic as long as Jackson County remains the jurisdiction that decides where the stadium goes. I've always believed it has little to do with love for the K and more to do with the hassle of driving downtown and into an environment where many if not most suburban Jackson County do not feel comfortable whether the issue is traffic, crime or parking. The recent shooting event at Crown Center just confirms the anti-downtown bias that so many in the KC metro hold. Even if a deal does get worked out with Jackson County, I don't ever see it passing a vote. Just far too much opposition.

I liked City Scene's comments yesterday about revising bi-state. I think a downtown stadium would have a much better potential with Clay, Platte and Johnson County. The Jackson County legislature would be sidelined and the cost of the stadium could spread over a greater population reducing the impact on any particular entity. I know it's a pipedream but as someone living in Johnson County presently, I'd certainly let my reps know I was in favor.

[TheUrbanRoo]

Honestly I don't think the battle at this point is trying to win over the masses. I think we're getting there naturally.

The battle is literally just Frank White holding sole authority to fuck us. That's what needs to be figured out.

[dukuboy1]

This is so dumb and hopefully there will be enough voters to boot Fran White out of office. Not sure what it takes to recall a County Commissioner but it sure seems like he would be a good candidate.

However what if the Royals & Chiefs agree to resolve the questions/issues that were laid out and get things moving forward. Then I would think the prudent thing to do would be to start to find allies within Jackson County, KC, and MO political scene and start to back those people, pump money into their campaigns and do everything in their power to get "their guy" in office and then start to reshape the deal or look for other methods to help maybe offset some of what may not most beneficial to the teams. Get a person that is on their side and keep them in power for several years so they don't have to deal with the bullshit Frank is spewing.

[DaveKCMO]

What if Frank White was actually trying to get the best deal for taxpayers, who were roundly fucked over by the last agreement? And now that the term will be 40 YEARS (a term that should be illegal, tbh), why not extract more value?

Obviously just locating downtown isn't everyone's primary motivation, but it is the new ownership's priority. Some people just do not think this is a good use of public funds, especially since all independent data seems to confirm that.

[KCPowercat]

What if Frank White was actually trying to get the best deal for taxpayers, who were roundly fucked over by the last agreement? And now that the term will be 40 YEARS (a term that should be illegal, tbh), why not extract more value?

Obviously just locating downtown isn't everyone's primary motivation. Some people just do not think this is a good use of public funds, especially since all independent data seems to confirm that.

While he might be, he hasn't earned this assumption given his past governing of other county items.

[DaveKCMO]

What if Frank White was actually trying to get the best deal for taxpayers, who were roundly fucked over by the last agreement? And now that the term will be 40 YEARS (a term that should be illegal, tbh), why not extract more value?

Obviously just locating downtown isn't everyone's primary motivation. Some people just do not think this is a good use of public funds, especially since all independent data seems to confirm that.

While he might be, he hasn't earned this assumption given his past governing of other county items.

So why do people keep electing him?

[dukuboy1]

Then Frank needs to come to the table looking to make a deal not be obstructionist and vindictive. I'm all for ensuring the tax payers have a good deal, and in principle have nothing wrong with seeking assurances of long term leases to stay in KC & Jackson county. Just seems to me that all of this should have been done well in advance in boardrooms to hammer out the details then reveal the plan to the public and say this is what we have.

All of this bickering in the public does not make him appear stronger and is not helping his cause. He played his hand wrong, despite having some good cards. That is the biggest issue. He has let personal feelings cloud his process and professionalism. Someone else needs to shepherd the way forward to ensure it's a winner for all involved.

[KCPowercat]

What if Frank White was actually trying to get the best deal for taxpayers, who were roundly fucked over by the last agreement? And now that the term will be 40 YEARS (a term that should be illegal, tbh), why not extract more value?

Obviously just locating downtown isn't everyone's primary motivation. Some people just do not think this is a good use of public funds, especially since all independent data seems to confirm that.

While he might be, he hasn't earned this assumption given his past governing of other county items.

So why do people keep electing him?

I mean it's a good question.

[DaveKCMO]

https://ballotpedia.org/Frank_White_Jr.

[DColeKC]

What if Frank White was actually trying to get the best deal for taxpayers, who were roundly fucked over by the last agreement? And now that the term will be 40 YEARS (a term that should be illegal, tbh), why not extract more value?

Obviously just locating downtown isn't everyone's primary motivation, but it is the new ownership's priority. Some people just do not think this is a good use of public funds, especially since all independent data seems to confirm that.

I think the question is what is the "best" deal for taxpayers strictly related to the tax situation? They've already agreed to 20 million back to the city per year which I believe is exactly 20 million more than the last agreement? He wants 25m or nothing. I also think had he handled this better from the start, I would have more faith that he's looking out for the taxpayer but it just feels very personal. I've heard from a few people close to the negotiations that he has a beef with the Royals treatment of him vs other past players from the same timeframe.

[KCPowercat]

What if Frank White was actually trying to get the best deal for taxpayers, who were roundly fucked over by the last agreement? And now that the term will be 40 YEARS (a term that should be illegal, tbh), why not extract more value?

Obviously just locating downtown isn't everyone's primary motivation, but it is the new ownership's priority. Some people just do not think this is a good use of public funds, especially since all independent data seems to confirm that.

I think the question is what is the "best" deal for taxpayers strictly related to the tax situation? They've already agreed to 20 million back to the city per year which I believe is exactly 20 million more than the last agreement? He wants 25m or nothing. I also think had he handled this better from the start, I would have more faith that he's looking out for the taxpayer but it just feels very personal. I've heard from a few people close to the negotiations that he has a beef with the Royals treatment of him vs other past players from the same timeframe.

Yeah that's my thoughts. He has seemed to operate in bad faith from the beginning so I can't assume he's operating for the taxpayer now.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Judging by the info coming from Manny in regards to this entire situation, it sounds like there’s no good faith on the side of White. He’s definitely grinding an axe here, and simultaneously burning the future of the KC Metro by possibly driving team ownership to the suburbs or worse.