Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

[AlkaliAxel]

Theoretically you could go on transit all the way if you lived in a hotel anywhere along Main St and they had a bus station somewhere downtown to the TSC. They should really try to get the South loop cap built by June 2026 too.

What does the south loop lid have to do with this? If you're focused on the World Cup bid, there are a lot of better ways to spend that money than capping a freeway that (a) isn't that bad by US standards and (b) isn't even close to the transfer point for getting people to TSC from the Main Street Extension (that would be 31st Street, which is a horrible environment by any measure).

The east/west study will be focused on going east/west from Midtown, and there are two other freeways (71/435), an industrial river bottom, and lots of railroad tracks between Midtown and TSC so let's focus there.

South loop doesn't have anything to do with the World Cup transport bid, I just think it would nice for tourists in town during the Cup to see and use.

[normalthings]

Theoretically you could go on transit all the way if you lived in a hotel anywhere along Main St and they had a bus station somewhere downtown to the TSC. They should really try to get the South loop cap built by June 2026 too.

What does the south loop lid have to do with this? If you're focused on the World Cup bid, there are a lot of better ways to spend that money than capping a freeway that (a) isn't that bad by US standards and (b) isn't even close to the transfer point for getting people to TSC from the Main Street Extension (that would be 31st Street, which is a horrible environment by any measure).

The east/west study will be focused on going east/west from Midtown, and there are two other freeways (71/435), an industrial river bottom, and lots of railroad tracks between Midtown and TSC so let's focus there.

KU Med - 39th to Main - Main up to Linwood, Linwood over to some point east?

[DaveKCMO]

The intent is to activate transit on the Rock Island, so at least that far east with something -- could be BRT in the interim.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

The intent is to activate transit on the Rock Island, so at least that far east with something -- could be BRT in the interim.

How significant a role will the Plaza multimodal stop play in getting pax from main corridor to TSC if we get WC? Or would we just establish a dedicated station with which to transport exclusively to TSC?

[DaveKCMO]

The intent is to activate transit on the Rock Island, so at least that far east with something -- could be BRT in the interim.

How significant a role will the Plaza multimodal stop play in getting pax from main corridor to TSC if we get WC? Or would we just establish a dedicated station with which to transport exclusively to TSC?

Too early to say. It really is unlike anything we've ever hosted. People compare it to the Super Bowl parade, but it really is well beyond that or even a Super Bowl.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

The intent is to activate transit on the Rock Island, so at least that far east with something -- could be BRT in the interim.

How significant a role will the Plaza multimodal stop play in getting pax from main corridor to TSC if we get WC? Or would we just establish a dedicated station with which to transport exclusively to TSC?

Too early to say. It really is unlike anything we've ever hosted. People compare it to the Super Bowl parade, but it really is well beyond that or even a Super Bowl.

If we perused 12th street E/W, how likely could it be completed, at least the eastern portion, in time to host? As that would provide direct rail connection to new 12th and Charlotte Transit Center. Seems that could work, and be a great way to incorporate into future eastern growth.

[DaveKCMO]

How significant a role will the Plaza multimodal stop play in getting pax from main corridor to TSC if we get WC? Or would we just establish a dedicated station with which to transport exclusively to TSC?

Too early to say. It really is unlike anything we've ever hosted. People compare it to the Super Bowl parade, but it really is well beyond that or even a Super Bowl.

If we perused 12th street E/W, how likely could it be completed, at least the eastern portion, in time to host? As that would provide direct rail connection to new 12th and Charlotte Transit Center. Seems that could work, and be a great way to incorporate into future eastern growth.

Streetcar? Not possible by 2026.

[earthling]

Dave, from what you have seen so far, which potential E/W route can likely be funded long term with TDD and get enough votes within the TDD district.

[alejandro46]

We can't do any expansion with just a TDD. I think you need a citywide vote for future expansions.

https://www.kcur.org/government/2018-01 ... nvolvement

Also Heather Hall is a POS.

[AlkaliAxel]

We can't do any expansion with just a TDD. I think you need a citywide vote for future expansions.

https://www.kcur.org/government/2018-01 ... nvolvement

Also Heather Hall is a POS.

Annoying, but not lethal. I think at this point we could probably win just about any streetcar vote citywide. It's a classic example of once the residents get a taste they realize how much they like it and all the initial dumbass opposition fades away. Perhaps instead of doing increments like we've been doing we should plan one for the whole city and send out the vote on it. Just really get the ball going, make KC completely transit-oriented so assholes can't say "we don't have real transit!!" for all eternity as an excuse for everything.

[normalthings]

Issue is paying for it. I think county based tax may be the way to go unless you want to go to the state for a new approval.

[AlkaliAxel]

Issue is paying for it. I think county based tax may be the way to go unless you want to go to the state for a new approval.

I think we could pass it on county vote. But at that point if it's county we'd be talking about something outside of just KC proper, so it would have to be light rail I assume?

[normalthings]

Depends. Rail is expensive. Could just be busses and maybe an option TDD to upgrade a corridor to streetcar. Scenarios are being evaluated now and will go public in due time. Stimulus vote this week or soon could also have a big impact. Seems like the reconciled BuildBackBetter Act really won’t much more for transit than what the bipartisan bill will.

[KCtoBrooklyn]

KU Med - 39th to Main - Main up to Linwood, Linwood over to some point east?

If there were to be a streetcar line from KU Med to Linwood, I like the idea of connecting it through Roanoke Park via Wyoming/Karnes Blvd rather than running it down Main. That would give you a stop and Penn Valley CC, which I think would be highly used. Obviously, there is a trade off by skipping 39th and SW TFWY/Broadway. But that route through the park would also be faster and have less of an impact on traffic (39th from SW TRFWY to Main is already a bit of a mess).

You could have a stop in the park by the Grocer's Warehouse building. There is some more development opportunity in that area north of the park with some vacant/underused land. Plus, bringing more people to the park (and hopefully more city investment in the park) would be a good thing.

[DaveKCMO]

If there were to be a streetcar line from KU Med to Linwood, I like the idea of connecting it through Roanoke Park via Wyoming/Karnes Blvd rather than running it down Main.

Who are the transit customers there? Where are the jobs?

Do you want to take the lead on public outreach to make that happen? There's a reason most of those streets are engineered to discourage circulation from adjacent areas.

[normalthings]

How much would it take to restore the Rock Island tracks and bring in some proper commuter rail cars from Chicago and run WC spectators from Union Station out to TCS?

Get an agreement with KC Intermodal for track priority during those times.

Feels like this would be an atainable project for 2026.

It was ~$2 million per mile pre-covid if the ground was already graded. There are OCS - Diesel or Battery Hybrids that could run as a streetcar in the city and normal train on Rock Island row. New Jersey has one of these systems that runs on Blvds, 2 land streets, and dedicated ROW.

[KCtoBrooklyn]

Do you want to take the lead on public outreach to make that happen?

Haha. No. I didn't know leading a public outreach was a prerequisite for throwing an idea out there on the internet.

.
Who are the transit customers there? Where are the jobs?

KU Med? Penn Valley CC? Seems like a good amount of transit customers and jobs there.

[shinatoo]

How much would it take to restore the Rock Island tracks and bring in some proper commuter rail cars from Chicago and run WC spectators from Union Station out to TCS?

Get an agreement with KC Intermodal for track priority during those times.

Feels like this would be an atainable project for 2026.

It was ~$2 million per mile pre-covid if the ground was already graded. There are OCS - Diesel or Battery Hybrids that could run as a streetcar in the city and normal train on Rock Island row. New Jersey has one of these systems that runs on Blvds, 2 land streets, and dedicated ROW.

I'm talking about using the existing Rock Island ROW that still has tracks on it from wherever it leaves the KC Terminal (Wilson ave and Bennington Ave?) tracks to TSC. The tracks are still there, they just need to be rehabbed.

Then use existing stock, like maybe Amtrack engines and commuter coaches from other cities.

[DaveKCMO]

I was specifically rejecting the suggestion about routing through Coleman Highlands with transit (rather than SW Trafficway, 31st/39th, Main).

[normalthings]

How much would it take to restore the Rock Island tracks and bring in some proper commuter rail cars from Chicago and run WC spectators from Union Station out to TCS?

Get an agreement with KC Intermodal for track priority during those times.

Feels like this would be an atainable project for 2026.

It was ~$2 million per mile pre-covid if the ground was already graded. There are OCS - Diesel or Battery Hybrids that could run as a streetcar in the city and normal train on Rock Island row. New Jersey has one of these systems that runs on Blvds, 2 land streets, and dedicated ROW.

I'm talking about using the existing Rock Island ROW that still has tracks on it from wherever it leaves the KC Terminal (Wilson ave and Bennington Ave?) tracks to TSC. The tracks are still there, they just need to be rehabbed.

Then use existing stock, like maybe Amtrack engines and commuter coaches from other cities.

Any tracks on the county owned ROW needs to be rebuilt. Bridges are in good condition but single tracked.

If Amtrak replaces their fleet before 2026, could buy their old vehicles. Issue is getting into downtown, you’d need to run a lot of trains through the junctions into RM. would be a long trip and I doubt freight would approve.