KCRag Forum

The most interesting thing they wrote about Cordish is that they have "spies" in KC looking at what we have/don't have (A twentysomething and a fortysomething).

--I would almost expect a Blvd. Brew Pub even if Cordish has to buy the naming rights themselves. Lester from the Star mentioned it on Week in Review and it has come up numerous times on this board...it makes sense.

--The skateparks (Vans or ESPN X Games) are just indoor centers usually found at megamalls (St. Louis Mills, the Walk at Orange). I just thought it would add a draw for teens who want to do something else, but hang out. They take up a lot of sq. feet, but could probably be anchor on an upper level of the development.

--As for the Legends....
KC Live = entertainment district
Legends = retailtainment district
The Legends, if RED knows what they're doing, should be St. Louis Mills on steroids. At 800,000 to 1,000,000 sq. feet, there is no way Legends is going to be strictly entertainment. I would expect names like Marshall's, Old Navy or even Nordstrom Rack to pop up. It should be a megamall with tourist leanings towards restaurants and retailers. Legends should be what Great Mall utterly failed at.

I'm not sure who will win tenants like Hard Rock or whatever, but they both have advantages. Legends already has a huge amount of retail and draw in place now. But KC Live is closer to other actractions like the casinos, Plaza, Westport, City Market, etc. It will interesting to see what happens. Legends is coming spring 2005 and KC Live opens summer 2006.

I would love to see a Galyans. That store is great and its the only reason i still have to force myself sometimes to go out to Town Center... Galyans (sp?) is the only unique thing there worth visiting in my opinion and i would love not having to drive out south to that overrated strip mall. Put it downtown. It'll appeal to locals/tourists i think...but i agree it may not fit the demographic 100%.

kcteen

I truly doubt Legends will ever be built.

I disagree, Dead Man. Wtih both NFM and Cabellas, you have a regular, large crowd out there. Having other activities would be a natural, for those who are looking for other things to do while the spouse is shopping at those two attractions. From what i've heard, the BBQ place is packed all the time. If it is done right, as Cabellas and NFM was, we could have a great destination place.

Yeah but when? They originally promised the Legends would open by spring 2004. Well it is almost spring 2004 now and they havent even started construction. Not to mention the company that was going to build a theater out there backed out 6 months ago and they have yet to find a replacement.

Keep in mind, they promised a lot when they built the Woodlands. A lot of development that never happened. Im very afraid the same thing will happen again. Just like how KCMO, took all the business from the woodlands with riverboat casinos, the KC Live make take the tourism business away from Village West.

god, I hope your'e wrong, Dead man! As much as we bitch about JOCO stealing business from KCMO, it would not be good if we were guilty of the same thing. I'd like to think that two major entertainment venues could be supported in the metro. I think that we can, and I think the two districts could complement each other rather than compete.

DeadManWalking wrote:Keep in mind, they promised a lot when they built the Woodlands. A lot of development that never happened. Im very afraid the same thing will happen again. Just like how KCMO, took all the business from the woodlands with riverboat casinos, the KC Live make take the tourism business away from Village West.

The Woodlands was only marginally successful before the riverboat casinos opened, and you can't charactarize it as stealing business. The casinos were new operations, it wasn't like they moved from KCK to KCMO. Besides, there was nothing stopping Kansas from competing with the Missouri boats, it was Kansas's choice not to allow casinos.

The lack of development around the Woodlands is not KCMO's fault, KCK had a several-year head start that they failed to capitalize on. Fortunately they learned their lesson from the failure of the Woodlands - use the traffic and buzz of a major attraction to develop a well-planned district around it. If Jackson County had done this in the 1970s then the area around the Truman Sports Complex would be much more alive than it is now.

dangerboy wrote:

DeadManWalking wrote:Keep in mind, they promised a lot when they built the Woodlands. A lot of development that never happened. Im very afraid the same thing will happen again. Just like how KCMO, took all the business from the woodlands with riverboat casinos, the KC Live make take the tourism business away from Village West.

The Woodlands was only marginally successful before the riverboat casinos opened, and you can't charactarize it as stealing business. The casinos were new operations, it wasn't like they moved from KCK to KCMO. Besides, there was nothing stopping Kansas from competing with the Missouri boats, it was Kansas's choice not to allow casinos.

The lack of development around the Woodlands is not KCMO's fault, KCK had a several-year head start that they failed to capitalize on. Fortunately they learned their lesson from the failure of the Woodlands - use the traffic and buzz of a major attraction to develop a well-planned district around it. If Jackson County had done this in the 1970s then the area around the Truman Sports Complex would be much more alive than it is now.

Dont get me wrong, the Woodlands did indeed lose business because of the casinos, but Im not blaming KCMO for the failures. Both places are gambling venues and the Missouri casinos just happened to be better ones. The gamblers of Kansas City decided that the riverboats were better places to spend money than the dog and horse tracks. Literally for the first few years the woodlands was open, I saw their parking lot filled to capacity, and there was a great deal of traffic in the area. Immediately after the casinos opened, there was maybe one fourth the amount of people out there at the track. Believe me, I used to live less than a mile from there. I wont say that the casinos stole business, they just proved the KC gambling market wasn't large enough to support a dog and horse track if there were other venues available.

Im not blaming lack of development on KCMO, Im saying that KCK failed once at development, and now they could fail again at the Speedway. I hope they dont fail, but failure is expected in KCK. I hope the area is big enough for two tourist venues.

The Pitch tries to do a number on the new entertainment district spoofing KC companies...

http://www.pitch.com/issues/2004-01-01/ ... index.html

Someone should let them know that SBC's headquarters aren't here, but in San Antonio. One of their illustrators from New Times corporation's lookalike papers in another city was probably responsible.

But SBC does have a presence downtown. That is probably what they were going for. Also, I love the Shook, Hardy & Bacon Bits Family Resturant. My grandma actually did think i worked for a restaurant.

Yeah, but every single company they list is a KC company (Hallmark, AMC, Applebee's, KCP&L) except SBC.

DeadManWalking wrote:I wont say that the casinos stole business, they just proved the KC gambling market wasn't large enough to support a dog and horse track if there were other venues available.

Don't make me laugh. The reason people don't go out to the Woodlands as frequent is because you have to wait 15-45 minutes between races. The average gambler gets bored, so that is why slot and poker machines are needed at the track. We go out during the big races and bet on the local stuff as well as the big simulcast race. However, we're bored as hell between each Woody race! It's not worth goin' all the way out there jus' to twiddle your thumbs and eat at one crappy restaurant in the club house. THE WOODLANDS NEEDS A CASINO INSIDE!!!!

the same thing happened in Shreveport La when they opened casinos there. the horse track almost went belly up. After years and years, they finally got video poker, and it still has not come back to its former glory.

Interestingly, Shreveport, with a population of a little over 400,000, has 4 huge casinos at last count, all open 24 hours a day, all with enormous hotels, and all full all the time. they've also opened a Bass Pro Shop in downtown (or so i've heard).

Louisiana used to have the more screwed up gambling laws around. Even now, if you have a liquor license you can have up to 3 video poker machines. If you sell Deisel and have a liquor license, you can have up to 6 machines. When the law was first enacted, a business could have more than one liquor license! Needless to say, it got a bit ridiculous, so they've tightened the laws. Now only one license per business, and it is up to the voters in each parish to decide whether to allow video poker within its boundaries.

Tat, are you sayin' the video poker machines hurt the track? Any kind of slot machines in the Woodlands would only help the track as it has helped tracks in Council Bluffs and Des Moines. People could then place a bet on a race, and go sit down at a machine and gamble as they wait 15-30 minutes before the next race. Goin' to the track is about 20 minutes of race time and 5 or more hours of sittin' around.

Oh, no, not what i am saying. The video poker machines saved the horse track in Shreveport. When the casinos opened there, the track's business just about died. There is no way in hell that the Woodlands will survive if the state does not do something for them. Wyandotte County really does need and deserve a full fledged, top notch Casino.

tat2kc wrote:Wyandotte County really does need and deserve a full fledged, top notch Casino.

Wyandotte Co., Junction City, Dodge City and race tracks in Park City (Wichita) and Frontenac (Pittsburg). Anyhow, back to the topic...

QueSi2Opie wrote:

tat2kc wrote:Wyandotte County really does need and deserve a full fledged, top notch Casino.

Wyandotte Co., Junction City, Dodge City and race tracks in Park City (Wichita) and Frontenac (Pittsburg). Anyhow, back to the topic...

I know I disagreed with gambling in KCK before, but I've changed my mind. We do need the slots at the track, after all the Woodlands already has gambling, so why not just expand on that. Slot machines would be a great time filler in between races as you suggested, and would also help support western KCK as the tourist attraction they want it to be. Finally they can use the tax revenue to help all the money troubled Kansas schools.

I really hope Cordish is able to start a couple of the res towers really soon. I still scares me that the entertainment district might be surrounded by surface lots and boarded up buildings.

I'm gonna post a few pics and try and get my bearrings of all the projects in the area like the Jones Store Block and President Block.

Is it just me or does it look like the P&L building is where the President is supposed to be in the rendering?