bobbyhawks wrote:
Early returns on the new Mizzou show that they are actually better offensively than they are defensively. They are limiting turnovers, on a torrid pace from 3pt land, but are pretty terrible so far at getting offensive boards. They continue to be effective at getting steals and are a very good defensive rebounding team. MU is still playing a fast game (25th in tempo to Arkansas' 71st).
They (KU) don't do anything extraordinarily well on defense, but they do almost everything ok which adds up to a top 25 defense.
It's rather astounding Mizzou can rebound at all after losing their best forward and with only 1 big man as a starter, and 2 others getting minimal minutes. I guess Haith teaches the one thing Anderson never did...Boxing Out. Mizzou may be the quickest team in the NCAA but they also be the smallest in the upper tiers of division I.
KU's defense has looked good on the one occasion I've seen it. They may have some long scoring droughts this season but the defense will keep them in games. Withey has to be considered a pleasant surprise even if he's not impressing any one with his point totals.
kcmetro wrote:I for one enjoyed the pathetic turnout by the Tiger "faithful". It just cements the fact even more that KC is a KU town and always will be. MU fans don't care about showing up to support their team. They don't travel well, whether it's to Texas or if it's down the street to the Sprint Center.
MU fans in KC are concentrated in the heart of Chief's country...eastern Jackson County and north of the river. They will watch a rare chance to see the Chief's on Monday night football before going to a basketball game. For most people, pros trump college sports. So I wouldn't hold that up as a bad thing. In any event, I've never followed a team anywhere...that's kind of homerism deluxe. My holidays are built around a little more ambitious concepts. I'll be up in Austin watching Mizzou play in a couple of months but I live 2 hours away.
TRob has improved his offensive moves IMO. Its still a work in progress and when he faces better big men in the paint with better competition it will be problematic, but he held his own against Kentucky and is going to be good for at least 16-8 most nights. And he's mostly kept out of foul trouble which is good.
Withey is much better than I originally thought. I thought he'd be a poor man's Christian Moody, but he actually reminds me of Sasha Kaun in his first year. Now Sasha improved dramatically, and I don't expect that of Withey, but if he can block some shots, grab some boards, and score an occasional bucket, that would be fantastic.
Tyshawn's propensity to make stupid decisions is down thus far. That will be huge. If he can cut down on bone-headedness, he has a chance to be All-Conference.
Still looking for Elijah Johnson to emerge. Think he could become a real threat and an important player. Releford seems pretty inconsistent offensively but could become their best defender. Wesley seems like a really nice addition as a bench player. Teahan I'm sorry, looks terrible thus far. Can't create a shot, seems to make lots of stupid decisions for a supposedly smart player, and worse of all he isn't hitting his shots. Hope he doesn't turn into a liability. Young and Tharpe have looked okay, but I haven't seen enough to have much of an opinion yet on them.
Overall, I'm encouraged. They're a bit better than I thought they'd be thus far. If Tyshawn can continue to be a consistent offensive performer and Elijah turns into a solid shooter/distributor, this could be a really exciting team. Really looking forward to seeing how they stack up against Duke and Ohio State.
MU was shockingly better than I had ever seen them play under Anderson. Great job moving the ball around and really opening up the lanes. Also, great shot selection. Something you never saw the last three years.
What does this do to the status of the Haith investigation if MU is a top 10 team?
Last night's games have MU leapfrogging MU in the Kenpom.com rankings. I've mentioned before that they are a bit unreliable this early in the year, but they are still interesting to follow. Mizzou moved up to #8 and KU moved up to #9. KU is still giving up a high percentage of three pointers and getting blocked a lot without making it to the line. Missouri continues to not grab offensive boards.
Good win for MU since they do not face another top 26 team (Cal was ranked 26) until they play Baylor on Jan. 21. They only have 4 of those games the rest of the season (including that Baylor game) which could bode well for their record. KU has 7 of those games as the rankings stand now (Georgetown is 28). All this said, the rankings will change quite a bit over the next many weeks, but it is interesting to look at. Both teams are projected at 13-5 in the conference. The 2/25 matchup could be epic considering all factors involved in the rivalry.
The Kenpom.com percentage chance of KU winning tonight is 42%, which I might agree with but could probably be a bit lower considering Duke is a three point shooting team with size.
TRob has improved his offensive moves IMO. Its still a work in progress and when he faces better big men in the paint with better competition it will be problematic, but he held his own against Kentucky and is going to be good for at least 16-8 most nights. And he's mostly kept out of foul trouble which is good.
Robinson did something I've never seen him do before last night, make a jump shot. He puts the ball on the floor WAY too much for a big guy usually with bad results. Needs to develop a hook and a turn-around and forget about shooting the three. He has a long way to go before he is an all American caliber forward but he does a few things really well.
Johnson looked good. Taylor plays dumb and gets the benefit of the doubt too much on fouls on stupid drives to the basket....he won't get that against Duke. Watch and see. Withey is the reason KU is winning games this year. Without him, they'd be in trouble. He's effectively altered the inside game of opponents with his defensive capability. He tries too hard sometimes and fouls too much as a result...doesn't need to block the shot, his presence just alters it. He's better than Aldrich in that regard.
shinatoo wrote:MU was shockingly better than I had ever seen them play under Anderson. Great job moving the ball around and really opening up the lanes. Also, great shot selection. Something you never saw the last three years.
What does this do to the status of the Haith investigation if MU is a top 10 team?
Agreed, looked way more composed and patient than during the Anderson era. Anderson never had the depth to really run his system the way he wanted to at Mizzou and I've always wondered how much fatigue impacted the offense. Nonethless, they just passed better, controlled the ball better and shot better than they ever did during the Anderson tenure...and even played better defense. Steve Moore also looked great, hope he can repeat that performance when needed. But they also struggled against SE Mo State so it's difficult to understand what has happened in the last two games.
bobbyhawks wrote: Missouri continues to not grab offensive boards.
They are just too small. Bowers was there best offensive rebounder but he's out for the season. Stopping the offensive board is a bigger problem. I thought the Tigers would stink this year once Bowers went down but when they put the Pressey brothers, English, Dixon and Denmon in the backcourt every game, they can really dictate tempo and disrupt other teams.
Last edited by Highlander on Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
TRob has improved his offensive moves IMO. Its still a work in progress and when he faces better big men in the paint with better competition it will be problematic, but he held his own against Kentucky and is going to be good for at least 16-8 most nights. And he's mostly kept out of foul trouble which is good.
Robinson did something I've never seen him do before last night, make a jump shot. He puts the ball on the floor WAY too much for a big guy usually with bad results. Needs to develop a hook and a turn-around and forget about shooting the three. He has a long way to go before he is an all American caliber forward but he does a few things really well.
Johnson looked good. Taylor plays dumb and gets the benefit of the doubt too much on fouls on stupid drives to the basket....he won't get that against Duke. Watch and see. Withey is the reason KU is winning games this year. Without him, they'd be in trouble. He's effectively altered the inside game of opponents with his defensive capability. He tries too hard sometimes and fouls too much as a result...doesn't need to block the shot, his presence just alters it. He's better than Aldrich in that regard.
You've criticized Robinson plenty on here - and the fact that this is the first time you've seen him make a jumper leads me to believe this is the first time you've seen him play. The turnaround is looking good. I agree, he probably puts the ball on the floor too much - but so does every other big man (including Withey).
TRob has attempted exactly one three point shot in three years. Not sure where that criticism is coming from. Other than the fact you have not seen him play much.
I do agree that Withey has improved, but I don't believe he is better at Aldrich at altering shots by any stretch of the imagination. Cole's presence changed the opposing team's offense. Not saying Withey can't get there - I just don't think he is where Cole was when he matured.
Also agree Taylor can be frustrating, but his agressiveness to the basket (while occasionally erratic) is a key to our offense this year and we have to have both him and EJ taking it strong inside to help open things up.
WSPanic wrote:You've criticized Robinson plenty on here - and the fact that this is the first time you've seen him make a jumper leads me to believe this is the first time you've seen him play. The turnaround is looking good. I agree, he probably puts the ball on the floor too much - but so does every other big man (including Withey).
TRob has attempted exactly one three point shot in three years. Not sure where that criticism is coming from. Other than the fact you have not seen him play much.
I've seen Robinson play many times. Maybe I am watching the wrong games but nearly every basket he makes is a layup or dunk (5 of 7 shots in the Georgetown game were dunks). It's great for KU that he does that, but the amount of jump shots he made last season and this season in the games I've seen can be counted one hand..and that's watching him 15-20 times. Robinson was quoted earlier in the year that he plans on taking more 3 point shots this year.....that's where that is coming from. I criticize him because he gets a lot of accolades that I think are undeserved; All American candidate and pre-season player of the year. If he didn't play for KU and he wasn't such a compelling story, he wouldn't garner the attention or the honors. I guess that is a good thing for recruiting at KU; you will be noticed. Robinson is not exactly unskilled, and he is certainly athletic but his offensive skills are average for a major conference forward.
I do think Withey is a better defender than Aldrich. Both Kentucky and UCLA had trouble scoring in the paint while he was in. Aldrich got away with an awful lot of hacking. After he established the reputation as a defensive player in the game against NC, he got the benefit of the doubt on defense.
As a KU fan, I think Robinson is a tad overrated as well. I've heard people saying he might be the top pick in the draft, and I think that's crazy at this point. He lacks what the Twins had...an outside game. They could step out and hit 3's at will. He's strong and athletic and has an NBA body, but outside of 10 feet, he's not a consistent threat. He can however beat you with his first step down the baseline, and his post moves have improve dramatically this year. He's just gotta get his 15 footer dropping on a consistent basis, instead of trying to dribble to the bucket all the time.
Interesting to see Harvard and UCF meeting in the final of a tourney that included 4th ranked UConn and 22cd ranked FSU. I am sure the prized meeting was suppose to be between FSU and UConn.
Harvard has taken on some decent programs (Loyola Marymount-who beat UCLA by double figures, FSU, and Utah-who actually appear to be horrible this year after some nice seasons).
If it wasn't for the kid at Baylor, I'd say he was the best point guard in the big XII. His Assist/TO ratio is outstanding, plays great defense, doesn't score much but doesn't try, shoots free throws well and very athletic. Under Anderson, he was an out of control turnover machine that took ill advised shots....now he's under control and one of the best passers I've seen in a long time. Only a sophomore. That steal/dunk really got the Tigers going when Villanova was threatening to make it close. Dixon and English made some dumb plays tonight but Pressey was solid.
Tigers saw their achilles heal tonight though....foul trouble. With no depth, they can't play defense very aggressively when players get in foul trouble and that let Villanova go on some late runs that got them back in the game.
If it wasn't for the kid at Baylor, I'd say he was the best point guard in the big XII. His Assist/TO ratio is outstanding, plays great defense, doesn't score much but doesn't try, shoots free throws well and very athletic. Under Anderson, he was an out of control turnover machine that took ill advised shots....now he's under control and one of the best passers I've seen in a long time. Only a sophomore. That steal/dunk really got the Tigers going when Villanova was threatening to make it close. Dixon and English made some dumb plays tonight but Pressey was solid.
Tigers saw their achilles heal tonight though....foul trouble. With no depth, they can't play defense very aggressively when players get in foul trouble and that let Villanova go on some late runs that got them back in the game.
Ditto. The fastest and most accurate passing I've seen outside of a Globetrotters game. If he had stayed out of foul trouble it never would have been close in the last ten minutes.
But as a life long MU fan I'm afraid to get excited... but I'm starting to get excited.
If it wasn't for the kid at Baylor, I'd say he was the best point guard in the big XII. His Assist/TO ratio is outstanding, plays great defense, doesn't score much but doesn't try, shoots free throws well and very athletic. Under Anderson, he was an out of control turnover machine that took ill advised shots....now he's under control and one of the best passers I've seen in a long time. Only a sophomore. That steal/dunk really got the Tigers going when Villanova was threatening to make it close. Dixon and English made some dumb plays tonight but Pressey was solid.
Tigers saw their achilles heal tonight though....foul trouble. With no depth, they can't play defense very aggressively when players get in foul trouble and that let Villanova go on some late runs that got them back in the game.
Certainly better than Taylor. Tyshawn had another brutal night turning the ball over. His one armed passes are so frustrating.
MU continues to climb the Kenpom.com ladder at #6 in the nation by tempo free efficiency stats. KU has hovered back and forth around their current position of #11, and KSU is still very much a mystery at #36 due to lack of games.
Missouri is the best team in the nation with regard to not turning the ball over so far, a stat that will go a long way. Also, they are #2 in effective field goal percentage, an area where Kansas has historically dominated. They avoid blocks well and get a lot of steals (#5). They are an undersized team with an average of 2.39 years of experience and 27.5% of playing time coming from the bench. They have 3 of the top 50 players by offensive rating so far, which is pretty insane (Denmon, Ratliffe, Moore), and English (who is #54) is one of the top players by effective field goal percentage. Their defense continues to slide as the season moves along, but the offense is getting better. This is sort of a perfect storm for Mizzou as Haith has never coached a team with this tempo, hunger for assists, or defensive tenacity.
KU's offense continues to slide, while their defense remains solid. They do not do anything on offense extremely well, and they allow way too many steals and blocks (#273 and #288). Defensively, they are great at grabbing offensive boards, pretty bad at allowing 3s for a high percentage, but great at lowering percentages from 2-pt range and at getting blocks. They are an above average team by height, average 2.08 years of experience, and only get 26.3% of their play from the bench (last year it was 32%). Robinson is one of the best in the nation at defensive rebounding %, Withey is very good at getting blocks (shocking&), and Tyshawn is the best on the team at drawing fouls and in 3-pt %. A lot of people on the team are good at things, but not many are great. Ohio State is good at pretty much everything defensively except for getting blocks. Their offensive "weakness" would be getting to the line and converting, along with their average 3-pt shooting. Not surprisingly, they control the ball well to limit turnovers and create a number of them on the defensive side of the ball. They aren't quite as tall as KU, average 1.23 years of experience, and get 33.5% of their minutes from the bench. Sullinger is up there with T-Rob in defensive boards, Buford almost never fouls, and Craft gets a ton of steals. Other than that nobody is setting the world on fire.
KSU's defense is now #2 in the nation in field goal percentage defense (#17 overall), a stat that has clearly kept them from dropping some games they shouldn't. They are pretty good at preventing offensive boards, pretty bad from behind the line and at shooting 3s, and are getting very few steals on the defensive side of the ball. They are a fairly tall team with 1.38 years of average experience and 30.3% of their minutes coming from the bench. Gipson has been able to limit turnovers, and Henriquez has maintained a great blocking %.
One of the reasons Mizzou's defense has fallen off is because they've had some foul trouble in the last couple of games. They only go 7 deep, 8 if they have to so they tend to leave the guys in with foul problems and it impacts their D.
KU isn't that deep either but Self seems more content to play Wesley and Young (but not Tharpe for some reason) while Haith doesn't want to play Green who is looks to be more talented than either Wesley or Young. Mizzou will have a 2 sport athlete joining the basketball team after their bowl...hopefully he can join the rotation. Losing Bowers for the season is really hurting Mizzou, I think he's would have been the difference between a good team and a final four contender.
Highlander wrote:
One of the reasons Mizzou's defense has fallen off is because they've had some foul trouble in the last couple of games. They only go 7 deep, 8 if they have to so they tend to leave the guys in with foul problems and it impacts their D.
MU had 14 fouls in the 'Nova game. total. If that's foul trouble, than MU is gonna be in a serious sh*t storm come conference season. BigXII refs whistle u for breathing too hard.
Also, I'd be curious to see how MU gets away with a 7 man rotation in conference play. That's an awfully thin rotation.
