KCRag Forum

mean wrote: I think it may be more specifically a Lockhart-area thing.

Kreuz and Smitty's didn't have sauce last time I went, though they both should, cause their meat is 3rd rate. Anyone who thinks Bryants and Gates are overhyped or past their prime should take a "Lockhart Legends" trip sometime.

That said Louis Muellers has sauce, as does Black's and Luling City market and damn near every other central Texas bbq spot. And the sauces are generally tomato-based KC style, though in my experience, they generally shade towards the no molasses or "Gates" end of the KC bbq sauce spectrum.

Black's sauce is a fairly recent thing, isn't it? But yeah, most folks are definitely moving in that direction.

BBQ by definition is slow cooked/smoked meat, typically 3+ hours to much more. Anything under that is generally considered 'grilling'.  BBQing was invented to make poor cuts of meat more tender.

Putting BBQ sauce on grilled (or packaged) meats ain't not no BBQ.  The sauce doesn't harm BBQ, but it also doesn't define it.

ignatius wrote: BBQ by definition is slow cooked/smoked meat, typically 3+ hours to much more. Anything under that is generally considered 'grilling'.  BBQing was invented to make poor cuts of meat more tender.

Putting BBQ sauce on grilled (or packaged) meats ain't not no BBQ.  The sauce doesn't harm BBQ, but it also doesn't define it.

I agree, but it seems that a bunch of my friends from Texas consider anything thrown on the grill (burgers, brats, etc.) to be BBQ.  That is more like the Australian tourism advert usage of the term.  I haven't had good luck at Dallas cue joints at all.

I'm not sure when the tradition started so I will assume after WW II.  Back then a cookout on the patio was done on a "BBQ Grill" using charcoal, usually without a cover, with or without adding wood for flavoring.  All types of meats could be BBQ'ed, I mean grilled, this way.  Steaks, pork chops, hot dogs, hamburgers, chicken, etc.

aknowledgeableperson wrote:I'm not sure when the tradition started so I will assume after WW II.  Back then a cookout on the patio was done on a "BBQ Grill" using charcoal, usually without a cover, with or without adding wood for flavoring.  All types of meats could be BBQ'ed, I mean grilled, this way.  Steaks, pork chops, hot dogs, hamburgers, chicken, etc.

Precisely. The "BBQ grill" is almost always used for grilling (although they can definitely be used for barbecuing!) Most Americans use their barbecue grills exclusively for grilling. It's fast, and when we "have a barbecue" we're usually cooking things (burgers, steaks, dogs) that work best as grilled items. You wouldn't slow smoke a burger or steak. That's just silly. However, you can also, say, barbecue a slab of ribs on a BBQ grill. I do it all the time.

The white people backyard cookout version started when charcoal was invented around last turn o century.  

There are lots of versions of BBQ history but this gist of it is that poor people and slaves in early America slow cooked meat to make poor cuts of meat tender.  Pre-Columbian Americas/Indonesians  did it by placing carcus rubbed with spices in pits, covering with banana or other leaves covered with rocks and slow cooking till the meat falls off the bone.  We do a variation of this sometimes.. Puerco Pibil.

Here's one take on BBQ history...
http://www.thebbqguide.com/TheBBQGuide/ ... lling.html

Theirs no Jackstack in Olathe.
Memphis has Corky's Ribs and Florida has Smokey Bones and Sunny's BQ.

I got a kick out of this thread following it from work.  I am a BBQ lover but rarely get the good stuff anymore because it's 14 hours away in KC.  Texas BBQ is not very tasty.  It is lean, that seems to be a standard here but it is bland and the sauce is generally runny with a peppery taste but not too spicey.  The venues are all similar...long tables, minimalist, and usually order at the counter and walk the food to the table.  Not many sit down bbq's with actual service.  Every city near Houston boasts a "legendary" BBQ scene.

As for KC, I never recommend Gates any more. The meat quality has really gone downhill through the years although I used to really love the place.  I also had a really poor meal at Haywards last time in KC.  Bryant's has remained a bit better through the years (even at their VW location) but I really prefer Jack Stack and Oklahoma Joes although I hate the name of the latter.  Now with a franchise actually in Oklahoma, the world will think the best KC has to offer is an Oklahoma franchise....for gods sake, change the name.

I also could care less if the place is in KC or JoCo or if the patrons are white or green (as long as the meat isn't).  People, get real.   

There was a BBQ place in Grove OK for a few years.  Great meat, sauce above average, but the sides were a grade of F.  The beans tasted like Van Camps right out of the can.

"Dynamite drop-in, Monte." - Harry Doyle

Highlander wrote: People, get real.     

The past couple of days this forum (note: bbq, west bottoms dogs, chain restos) has been paralleling real life.  People acting strangely and picking arguments on topics and in ways that really have no point and no room for either winning or compromise.

Feels like all the world is PMS'ing and I need to go to the workshop and hide out until the cycle of the moon changes.

May be loosening up though, I see that Chrizow is 'fessing to liking Starbucks.........

Highlander, have you eaten at Thelma's? I know it burned down a few years ago but I think reopened, not sure if at the same location. Ate there in the old iteration and thought it was pretty darn good. Also had a great catfish sandwich.

I'm slightly BBQ deprived here in St. Louis, the OK spots often have a line out the door. I've taken to attempting to use my Weber as a slow(ish) cooker. I get a charcoal mound going and throw oak or hickory chunks on top and let that burn down, and set some country ribs slathered in memphis style sauce (at least I have the luxury of choosing sauce from memphis or kc here at the grocery stores and butcher shops in St. Louis) on the other side on some foil and let cook for 2.5 hours or so. Sometimes I throw a few more briquets on 2/3 of the way through. Simple, but works for me.

I also like thinly sliced pork butt slathered in Maulls Onion Bits and "fried" at high heat on a grill (pork steaks), but thats "BBQ" heresy!

So far, I've only hit Interstate, Tops, and Corkys in Memphis, and I use Charlie Vergo sauce here at home. I like the slaw and BBQ mixed together on the sandwhiches. None of the ribs I have had compare to Oklahoma Joes, however (YET). The KCK location of Authur Bryants has been a dissapointment the past 2 times...not how I remember Brooklyn Ave.

You can do really bangin' ribs in a Weber kettle, although I find it usually takes 3-4 hours since I keep such a small smoldering of wood/charcoal going (to keep the temp down) that I have to replenish it several times.

mean wrote: You can do really bangin' ribs in a Weber kettle, although I find it usually takes 3-4 hours since I keep such a small smoldering of wood/charcoal going (to keep the temp down) that I have to replenish it several times.

I have been practicing and learning to tweak the temps. I usually start too hot and end too cold (obviously), but I'm getting better. I think I have been using the 2 second rule (holding your hand near the grill before it really gets hot). I'd rather not get too technical about it, and just learn by "feel."

Yeah, I'm with you. I just try to keep it as constant as possible--constant temperature and good smoke are the keys, imo. Around what is probably ~250F (though I don't have a thermometer). Also, if you ever want to have a big party, a rib rack is totally worth the $10 fwiw.

AJoD wrote: Highlander, have you eaten at Thelma's? I know it burned down a few years ago but I think reopened, not sure if at the same location. Ate there in the old iteration and thought it was pretty darn good. Also had a great catfish sandwich.

Haven't been there.  It is re-opened.  It's so far and in a particularly poor neighborhood...which isn't a deterent in the daytime but it would have to be special to go to an area so frickin far from where I live and work.  Traffic here just sucks.  I've not even been to the much closer and also "Legendary"  Doziers (I swear, every bbq place here thinks it is a legend). 

http://www.doziersbbq.com/

mean wrote: You can do really bangin' ribs in a Weber kettle, although I find it usually takes 3-4 hours since I keep such a small smoldering of wood/charcoal going (to keep the temp down) that I have to replenish it several times.

My father had a cast iron BBQ grill that was rectangle in shape.  You were able to raise the back or front (depending on where you placed the meat) side of the grill to feed charcoal and wood and therefore not disturb the meat.  And the cast iron really retained the heat. Worked good as a smoker.

"Celebrity" chefs, the Voltaggio brothers were in town a few weeks back for the Williams-Sonoma Smoke and Fire Tour.  They went to Texas, KC, and Memphis (not sure if they went anywhere else).

Here are some of the blog posts from the trip, with Danny Edwards getting a lot of love:

http://blog.williams-sonoma.com/the-fir ... nsas-city/
http://blog.williams-sonoma.com/fire-sm ... nsas-city/
http://blog.williams-sonoma.com/5-thing ... -city-bbq/
http://blog.williams-sonoma.com/welcome ... nsas-city/
http://blog.williams-sonoma.com/a-sweet ... ity-style/

I'm not exactly sure how the Kansas City style burger fits in, but it does sound pretty delicious.