New condo tower for downtown St. Louis!

[chrizow]

i'll agree with everything you say except the part about Northwestern and U of Chicago.

what are you taking at Wash U?

[JivecitySTL]

If anyone from the coasts is looking at Northwestern for college, they're also looking at Wash U, that's almost a given.  The two schools are incredibly similar in every way.  U. of Chicago, you're probably right.

Believe it or not, I'm taking courses in American Culture Studies (aka Urban Studies).

[Maitre D]

Wash U is great.  however, i suspect if you looked at the origins of students at all the top expensive private schools, more students would be from NYC than anywhere else.  heh. 

i have to somewhat call BS on your assessment, however, Jive, if only due to your polling sample.   keep in mind the sort of people you are probably talking to.  the caliber of human that would even consider APPLYING to WashU, let alone GO there, is probably less than 1% of the American population.  your average new yorker probably isn't thinking about COLLEGE, let alone WASHU.   :)

however, i have no doubt that among high-achievers, doctors, etc. Wash U is well-known and in high esteem.

Thank you for writing almost exactly what I was going to respond with.  Saved me time.

[Maitre D]

Sure, I see your point, but as far as Midwestern universities go, Wash. U. is every bit as well known on the coasts as Northwestern or U. of Chicago, there is NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.  

Bullsht.

[Louman]

i dont know where you live but here in debaliviere place (actually on the west side of debaliviere in skinker-debaliviere) we have a clumsy "historic" looking stripmall that hopefully mr. edwards will take care of in due time. over in clayton they have a few highrise whoppers. stl hasnt had good track record with the "fresh modern but yet still traditional/urban architecture" i see in other cities, but that is changing. just my opinion. doesnt matter.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but that "fetish" comment was a little confusing to me. In essence, I think you are right and wrong. St. Louis has neighborhoods that have strict design codes, which may help explain the "fetish" you speak of. There are a lot of new residential projects in Soulard, Lafayette Square and Benton Park you'd never know were "new" because of the strict building codes implemented in those neighborhoods. Most of the historic designs in these neighborhoods have been on-point, in my opinion. Have some "historic" projects fallen short in design in other parts of the city? Certainly. But St. Louis is no better or worse than many cities when it comes to cheesy or lazy designs here-and-there.

There are "fresh" modern buildings scattered throughout St. Louis City and County. Some stand out prominently, while others are hidden. Also, the medical center is full of buildings with "modern" design.

Also, assuming that you are referring to Shaw Park Plaza or the Plaza in Clayton, I don't think these buildings in Clayton are bad designs at all. Maryland Walk certainly isn't. In fact, they blend well with St. Louis' historic character. The Plaza in Clayton project was influenced by this building.

[Louman]

i assume you mean Nelly, St. Lunatics, Chingy et al....that isn't a music scene, it's a small cadre of artists!  are they even relevant right now?  (sorry, not up on my current commercial-rap charts).  obviously i think it would be cool if KCMO had some nationally known cheese-rappers, but alas...

that said, i doubt many people over 30 could tell you who Nelly is, no matter where they live!   :)

Ummm. Nice little dig. Shows just how much you know, which isn't much, about the St. Louis national music scene. Even if it is a "small cadre", it is bigger than what's coming out of KC.

FYI: Nelly is working on his next album. In 2006, he had a big hit with Janet Jackson. Chingy released his last album in 2006, which so far has had two big hits. J-Kwon is working on his new album. Huey is about to release his new album and Jibbs is doing his thing. Other rappers and rap groups have made smaller splashes nationally, while others are in the pipeline.

Also, many music artists come to St. Louis for production. For example, Beyonce's song, Deja Vu, was co-produced by a guy from St. Louis. His name is Jon-Jon. He just won a Grammy for the song. He's currently producing many artists and they must come to St. Louis. There are many other producers. I could point out others, but I don't have the time.

Plus, there are some R&B and pop groups about to make it big out of St. Louis = more exposure.

KC is a nice town, but KC is not in the same league with St. Louis in regards to national recognition - not yet anyway.

[ShowMeKC]

We have Tech N9ne..



nuff said 

[Maitre D]

We have Tech N9ne..

nuff said 

And of course, these douchebags:

[ComandanteCero]

i'm going to agree with Chrizow, to call Chingy/Nelly/St. Lunatics/TrakStarz (big hip hop production team) a music scene is stretching the term.  If they all lived in St. Louis, and had most of their production happen in St. Louis, were regularly performing and interacting with other musicians in the area then yes i would say it is a music scene.  But it doesn't look like that.  They are prominent talents to come out of St. Louis, for sure, but they don't make up a St. Louis music scene per se. 

The scene is made up by those musicians, producers, etc who are actively performing, interacting and creating in St. Louis at this moment.

[chrizow]

And of course, these douchebags:

and my comments about Nelly, et al wasn't a "dig" at STL. 

besides, Nelly lives in Lake St. Louis. 

[chingon]

Lake St. Louis is more well known on the east coast than Lake Waukomis.  It also has denser water.

[kard]

Lake St. Louis is more well known on the east coast than Lake Waukomis.  It also has denser water.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on this thread.  Thanks. 

[JivecitySTL]

i'm going to agree with Chrizow, to call Chingy/Nelly/St. Lunatics/TrakStarz (big hip hop production team) a music scene is stretching the term.  If they all lived in St. Louis, and had most of their production happen in St. Louis, were regularly performing and interacting with other musicians in the area then yes i would say it is a music scene.  But it doesn't look like that.  They are prominent talents to come out of St. Louis, for sure, but they don't make up a St. Louis music scene per se. 

The scene is made up by those musicians, producers, etc who are actively performing, interacting and creating in St. Louis at this moment.

There are only about three or four cities in which serious music production amongst famous groups is actively taking place.  However you define a "scene" it is hard to deny that St. Louis is definitely on the hip-hop map, whether or not it's your bag or not.  There actually are producers working out of St. Louis who are collaborating with big acts, but I don't think that makes or breaks the "scene."  And seriously-- all the artists Louman mentioned have all remained extremely loyal to St. Louis and still rep the hell out of it whenever possible.  They can't really help it if the recording industry is based on the coasts.  Where a group goes to record their music is irrelevant.  It's the music itself and its inspiration which makes a city musically rich.

and seriously, there's a lot more to St. Louis music than hip-hop.

[warwickland]

kansas city seems to me to have a much more robust and mature indie rock and underground arts scene, which is what i have been interested in over the past several years. since moving back here to stl, ive been somewhat disappointed with the quality and variety of stl venues, but i realize there is a big vacuum and it's only a matter of time, but for now it's making a big sucking sound. i realize this is only one slice of the massive cultural pie that is stl, however. however, to be sure, kansas city does do some things consistently better than stl. some people in stl don't give kansas city any credit at all, and that's a shame. that being said, people in stl don't give stl any credit on anything, and that's a tragedy.

anybody wanna revive the rocket bar??? come to think of it, i should be on south grand right now watching riddle of steel. im a hypocrite.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but that "fetish" comment was a little confusing to me. In essence, I think you are right and wrong. St. Louis has neighborhoods that have strict design codes, which may help explain the "fetish" you speak of. There are a lot of new residential projects in Soulard, Lafayette Square and Benton Park you'd never know were "new" because of the strict building codes implemented in those neighborhoods. Most of the historic designs in these neighborhoods have been on-point, in my opinion. Have some "historic" projects fallen short in design in other parts of the city? Certainly. But St. Louis is no better or worse than many cities when it comes to cheesy or lazy designs here-and-there.

i at least believe i see a decent amount of urban and suburban architecture that tries to mimic historic design rather clumsily (intentional or not). i just feel that this is the case after living in the stl metro for 19 years, leaving, traveling to other cities, and returning and soaking it all  back in again 7 years later. it rather struck me, at least thats what i perceive. i suppose it really matters little because much of the architecture and its context is what i'd consider "throw-away," fortunately and unfortunately.

[GRID]

Lake St. Louis is more well known on the east coast than Lake Waukomis.  It also has denser water.

[ComandanteCero]

There are only about three or four cities in which serious music production amongst famous groups is actively taking place.  However you define a "scene" it is hard to deny that St. Louis is definitely on the hip-hop map, whether or not it's your bag or not.  There actually are producers working out of St. Louis who are collaborating with big acts, but I don't think that makes or breaks the "scene."  And seriously-- all the artists Louman mentioned have all remained extremely loyal to St. Louis and still rep the hell out of it whenever possible.  They can't really help it if the recording industry is based on the coasts.  Where a group goes to record their music is irrelevant.  It's the music itself and its inspiration which makes a city musically rich.

and seriously, there's a lot more to St. Louis music than hip-hop.

absolutely, I was just making the distinction between Nelly/Chingy/etc and what constitutes a city's music scene.  The music scene, in my book, is the day to day musical offerings in your city, not necessarily how high profile the stars that come out of your city are.  If someone says the music scene is pretty great in a particular city, i take this to mean that there is a pretty diverse, high quality offerings in the city, and there's an enthusiastic and passionate public.  It's the kind of place where if i were a musician i would head there to start networking and performing.  Again, just making the distinction.  As to whether St. Louis' music scene is better, or has a better reputation than KC's, i'm sure it depends on what kinds of musical styles you're talking about, as well as the general vibe, but i wouldn't know, since i'm not a musician, and not much of an audience member   

[eliphar17]

How did the thread go from a new condo tower in StL to indie/underground/local music comparisons?

[ntbpo]

Agreed, I was looking for some discussion concerning the new 22story condo (tower I guess?) building downtown. I hate to see that this has taken the same turn that so many stl kc threads take, let's try to keep it professional guys. Both of our cities rock, atleast compared to Omaha or OKC (are ya kiddin?)-they might as well be Springfield MO.


P.S. You need to tell the Omaha people to start their own forum. And no, we don't have as many billionares (who cares they're obviously not puttin that $ back into the city) as Omaha, so drop it already.

Rich in STL.

[ShowMeKC]

Well I like Nelly as well as Tech N9ne, I just like Tech N9ne more.

[KCMax]

How did the thread go from a new condo tower in StL to indie/underground/local music comparisons?

Because both cities are so insecure we must constantly make comparisons to one another in the never-ending quest to see who can piss further.