KCRag Forum

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:39 pm

msmith011 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:09 pm Looks like Dillard's may be moving ahead with a Plaza store: https://www.construction.com/projects/d ... club-plaza

I don't know how credible this filing is, but I wouldn't be surprised if true.

I would hope that the city/Taubman are using this opportunity to review the plan for the site. It's a fantastic location for adding apartments on top of retail while still keeping the concept of the plaza bowl alive. However, if this site is accurate and the valuation is 15-25 million it would not appear they are doing anything more than the store.

If you get the store opportunty on that lot though you take it. I'm not keen on rolling the dice on Plaza apartments. Many of them never happen.

Multiple developers have tried to pitch residential for this site. All shot down by the land owner.

Breaking up the Plaza only works if the city/neighborhood would approve redevelopment in the first place (they won't)

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:52 pm Multiple developers have tried to pitch residential for this site. All shot down by the land owner.

Breaking up the Plaza only works if the city/neighborhood would approve redevelopment in the first place (they won't)

I believe this and I hate it. You'd hope that you could sell this site more than many others (vacant lot already, doesn't interrupt the traditional plaza feel since it is on the fringe, double digit storied buildings on the street already)

Oh well, I just want this site filled honestly. It looks like the plaza is missing a tooth everytime I'm down there

Hope its a full line department store, which the central city needs somewhere. Maybe this will get something moving residential wise on the vacant site next to the Cancer Survivors Park.

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:54 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:52 pm Multiple developers have tried to pitch residential for this site. All shot down by the land owner.

Breaking up the Plaza only works if the city/neighborhood would approve redevelopment in the first place (they won't)

I believe this and I hate it. You'd hope that you could sell this site more than many others (vacant lot already, doesn't interrupt the traditional plaza feel since it is on the fringe, double digit storied buildings on the street already)

Oh well, I just want this site filled honestly. It looks like the plaza is missing a tooth everytime I'm down there

Yeah. I've been starting to give up on the Plaza recently. It's a really nice feature of the city, will have a great streetcar stop, but as far as it being a future rising star I'm losing hope.

On the flip side, the exact opposite should be said about Crossroads, Downtown, and the River Market. Perhaps even Midtown. And that matters alot more.

I think it's a mistake not to add apartments over retail on this parcel. Why would one not take the opportunity?

Good could use one their if can't get like Mejier.

FangKC wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:53 pm I think it's a mistake not to add apartments over retail on this parcel. Why would one not take the opportunity?

Agree. Seems like a no brainer.

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:39 pm

msmith011 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:09 pm Looks like Dillard's may be moving ahead with a Plaza store: https://www.construction.com/projects/d ... club-plaza

I don't know how credible this filing is, but I wouldn't be surprised if true.

I would hope that the city/Taubman are using this opportunity to review the plan for the site. It's a fantastic location for adding apartments on top of retail while still keeping the concept of the plaza bowl alive. However, if this site is accurate and the valuation is 15-25 million it would not appear they are doing anything more than the store.

There is no address on the link. What site are we talking about? Is this the site that Nordstrom was going to build on?

FangKC wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:53 pm I think it's a mistake not to add apartments over retail on this parcel. Why would one not take the opportunity?

My guess would be that it adds complexity and potential delays to the deal and probably not deemed necessary or even desirable by the primary tenant. It's easier for a single entity to forge a deal with the owners, construction contractors etc....

How the Country Club Plaza’s new manager plans to revitalize it

https://kansascitymag.com/news/business ... talize-it/

Godspeed to Dillard’s to succeed in a part of the metro where they’ve already closed up shop five times…

empires228 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:11 pm Godspeed to Dillard’s to succeed in a part of the metro where they’ve already closed up shop five times…

A mediocre big box clothing retailer found in every run of the mill mall in America is such a joke for the Plaza. Give me a break. Dillards? Dillards? That honestly the best we can do?

We’ve gone from Saks, Halls, Mark Shale…to Dillards.

It's funny how people still describe the plaza as being upscale. It's VERY far from being an upscale shopping area. Does KC really even have upscale shopping anywhere? I mean most people think fashion there is wearing sports paraphernalia and that's all people seem to buy/wear there.

The plaza just needs to become an urban neighborhood and stop pretending to be something it isn't. And that means Dillard's is fine so long as they can survive as a company. It's just too bad that it's not part of a mixed use development with residential. The core of the plaza desperately need residential.

Stop calling the plaza upscale and people won't be so disappointed in it. It's not even in the same universe as something like "Rodeo Drive of the midwest." which I have heard many times.

It's a pleasant urban area with interesting architecture. The plaza needs more people living there and it should become a dining destination if they would just widen the sidewalks along Nichols for outdoor cafes etc.

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:29 am Stop calling the plaza upscale and people won't be so disappointed in it. It's not even in the same universe as something like "Rodeo Drive of the midwest." which I have heard many times.

It's not necessarily the most luxurious shopping in the Midwest but it might be the coolest one other than Michigan Ave

UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:19 am

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:29 am Stop calling the plaza upscale and people won't be so disappointed in it. It's not even in the same universe as something like "Rodeo Drive of the midwest." which I have heard many times.

It's not necessarily the most luxurious shopping in the Midwest but it might be the coolest one other than Michigan Ave

Used to be.

UMKC Roo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:19 am

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:29 am Stop calling the plaza upscale and people won't be so disappointed in it. It's not even in the same universe as something like "Rodeo Drive of the midwest." which I have heard many times.

It's not necessarily the most luxurious shopping in the Midwest but it might be the coolest one other than Michigan Ave

Could be.

Grid any luxury spots seem to have dipped out to Town Center or elsewhere in South JoCo. *ducks to avoid getting caught in the anti JoCo crossfire*

It’s frustrating - Dillard’s is such a step down. For the life of me I can’t understand how there’s not a better concept this location can attract. Like a spot for small stalls and pop up food concepts like NYC’s Chelsea Market (which could give new and/or local concepts a plaza area space for cheaper). Hell, it’d be better if a neighborhood amenity like a grocery store went here than a mid-lower tier big box department store.

MidtownCat wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:22 am

empires228 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:11 pm Godspeed to Dillard’s to succeed in a part of the metro where they’ve already closed up shop five times…

A mediocre big box clothing retailer found in every run of the mill mall in America is such a joke for the Plaza. Give me a break. Dillards? Dillards? That honestly the best we can do?

We’ve gone from Saks, Halls, Mark Shale…to Dillards.

And what makes them think it will work this time? They already couldn’t make it work at The Landing, Ward Parkway Center, downtown Mission, downtown KCMO, and the Plaza itself. We’ve also had two Macy’s stores bail on the Mission Hills/Country Club/Leawood demographic in the past decade. The demographic very obviously doesn’t want a run of the mill department store. Judging by the decline of upper end offerings at Oak Park Mall they obviously don’t go there anymore than they go to the Plaza.

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:29 am It's a pleasant urban area with interesting architecture. The plaza needs more people living there and it should become a dining destination if they would just widen the sidewalks along Nichols for outdoor cafes etc.

Kind of odd that there are no restaurants on Nichols Road other than Tuscan Brio. It's the least restaurant-oriented street on the Plaza. It would be great if more were there and had outside patios. Multiple generations of owners have failed to recognize some of the benefits of making the Plaza a true Plaza and more pedestrian friendly.

I suspect the restaurant owners want more visible locations to be seen by the driving public which is why there are so few restaurants in the interior.

Highlander wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:29 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:29 am It's a pleasant urban area with interesting architecture. The plaza needs more people living there and it should become a dining destination if they would just widen the sidewalks along Nichols for outdoor cafes etc.

Kind of odd that there are no restaurants on Nichols Road other than Tuscan Brio. It's the least restaurant-oriented street on the Plaza. It would be great if more were there and had outside patios. Multiple generations of owners have failed to recognize some of the benefits of making the Plaza a true Plaza and more pedestrian friendly.

I suspect the restaurant owners want more visible locations to be seen by the driving public which is why there are so few restaurants in the interior.

It's odd that there are not many restaurants. I don't think they have to be on 47th to be visible. It's too bad there is nothing on there now or they could do what they do here in Annapolis and close Nichols on weekends. I have always said the plaza would be perfect for a European style restaurant district.

Here is West Street in Annapolis

Normal day:


Weekends:

Whatever gets built on the vacant lot the architects need to design some eye candy for the T intersection. When you have a terminating sightline like this, you need something extraordinary.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0413475 ... 384!8i8192

Examples of good T intersections.
'
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1034212 ... 384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.102891 ... 384!8i8192