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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:48 am
by TheSmokinPun
If only you could explain Sam Bankman-Fried's view on the Royals to the common fan, they'd gladly want to make things a bit better.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:10 pm
by aknowledgeableperson
KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:16 am
April 2023 and November 2022 had sales tax measures in Jackson county that both passed 68%.
That was before the reassessment fiasco.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:11 pm
by DColeKC
TheSmokinPun wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:48 am
If only you could explain Sam Bankman-Fried's view on the Royals to the common fan, they'd gladly want to make things a bit better.
Not following this take?
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:16 pm
by UMKCroo
DColeKC wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:11 pm
TheSmokinPun wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:48 am
If only you could explain Sam Bankman-Fried's view on the Royals to the common fan, they'd gladly want to make things a bit better.
Not following this take?
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... -deal.html
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:19 pm
by droopy
DColeKC wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:43 am
The Royals must enhance their communication by emphasizing that the goal is to increase revenue in order to
build a stronger team. They should provide a detailed comparison of how a downtown location can achieve this as opposed to the current one.
I agree with most of what you said but feel that a lot of opponents feel increased revenue will only lead to richer owners, not a better team.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 3:31 pm
by DColeKC
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 3:36 pm
by DColeKC
droopy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:19 pm
DColeKC wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:43 am
The Royals must enhance their communication by emphasizing that the goal is to increase revenue in order to
build a stronger team. They should provide a detailed comparison of how a downtown location can achieve this as opposed to the current one.
I agree with most of what you said but feel that a lot of opponents feel increased revenue will only lead to richer owners, not a better team.
Of course they do. It's the common, "why should I help someone who is so rich" argument that's always tossed out there. I think the Royals have done a terrible job of connecting this to being able to put together a better team. I doubt the ownership would commit to "x" amount of revenue goes back into the roster but it would surely help. The people opposed are a mixture of anti-anything new and screw the rich. They need to figure out that a city and it's people benefit substantially from these types of projects and we don't measure public-private partnerships based simply on money in and money out.
It's all complicated for the average tax payer to understand so the Royals need to simplify it.
An article today mentioned it's going to cost slightly more to renovate the K. Explain to the taxpayer that spending the same money to renovate your old house in a bad neighborhood isn't smart when you can build new in a better neighborhood.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 7:16 pm
by KCPowercat
aknowledgeableperson wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:10 pm
KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:16 am
April 2023 and November 2022 had sales tax measures in Jackson county that both passed 68%.
That was before the reassessment fiasco.
Yeah they weren't doing reassessments and jumping taxes last year at but hey whatever fits your narrative. Go off king.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:00 pm
by mean
I don't particularly care about screwing the rich, but how many studies have shown this type of thing to be a good investment?
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:30 pm
by DColeKC
mean wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:00 pm
I don't particularly care about screwing the rich, but how many studies have shown this type of thing to be a good investment?
Aren’t those studies done by economists who only look at the monetary investment Vs the tax revenue? I think it’s debatable when you factor in the intangible value.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:54 pm
by langosta
DColeKC wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:30 pm
mean wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:00 pm
I don't particularly care about screwing the rich, but how many studies have shown this type of thing to be a good investment?
Aren’t those studies done by economists who only look at the monetary investment Vs the tax revenue? I think it’s debatable when you factor in the intangible value.
The studies also consider entertainment dollars as pool that would exist largely unchanged within the host community with out without the team/stadium. In a region like ours where you get Dakotas down to Arkansas coming to KC for games, I think the entertainment dollars would flow to other cities w/o a team here.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2023 12:32 pm
by Highlander
langosta wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:54 pm
DColeKC wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:30 pm
mean wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:00 pm
I don't particularly care about screwing the rich, but how many studies have shown this type of thing to be a good investment?
Aren’t those studies done by economists who only look at the monetary investment Vs the tax revenue? I think it’s debatable when you factor in the intangible value.
The studies also consider entertainment dollars as pool that would exist largely unchanged within the host community with out without the team/stadium. In a region like ours where you get Dakotas down to Arkansas coming to KC for games, I think the entertainment dollars would flow to other cities w/o a team here.
Well it's even broader than that. Having an MLB team makes a city a more desirable location, particularly a midwestern city that isn't part of the sun belt or has great recreational attractions like Denver or SLC. It basically contributes to the overall quality of life of the city and, in this case, potentially the downtown area of that city. KC has to overcome the trend of growth in the US to be sunbelt and recreational asset oriented and it doesn't help to lose one of the factors that make it a major league city.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2023 3:03 pm
by aknowledgeableperson
DColeKC wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 3:36 pm
An article today mentioned it's going to cost slightly more to renovate the K. Explain to the taxpayer that spending the same money to renovate your old house in a bad neighborhood isn't smart when you can build new in a better neighborhood.
Given that both stadiums were constructed at the same time by the same contractor using the same materials wouldn't that also apply to Arrowhead with regards to renovation?
Say the Royals do move to wherever what to do with Royals stadium is the next big question. I think if the Chiefs announced what their intentions are for the baseball stadium site would do a lot to convince the no voters to think otherwise. Since the Chiefs are looking at a 25 year timeline to stay in Arrowhead that could be the location of a new stadium. In the meantime the Chiefs plan on using the site for ...
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2023 4:42 pm
by DColeKC
aknowledgeableperson wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 3:03 pm
DColeKC wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 3:36 pm
An article today mentioned it's going to cost slightly more to renovate the K. Explain to the taxpayer that spending the same money to renovate your old house in a bad neighborhood isn't smart when you can build new in a better neighborhood.
Given that both stadiums were constructed at the same time by the same contractor using the same materials wouldn't that also apply to Arrowhead with regards to renovation?
Say the Royals do move to wherever what to do with Royals stadium is the next big question. I think if the Chiefs announced what their intentions are for the baseball stadium site would do a lot to convince the no voters to think otherwise. Since the Chiefs are looking at a 25 year timeline to stay in Arrowhead that could be the location of a new stadium. In the meantime the Chiefs plan on using the site for ...
Yes but TSC isn't a bad neighborhood for Football or a stadium that takes in 80,000 15 times a year max. The Chiefs haven't had any problems selling tickets for a very long time and the NFL is such a beast that even the terrible teams sell 98% of their tickets per game.
Not to mention just due to the size alone, the cost to build a new football stadium versus rehabbing Arrowhead would be significant enough to justify staying put. If they're saying a new baseball stadium is going to be a billion, you'd have to put a new football stadium closer to 1.5 billion.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2023 7:37 pm
by KCPowercat
This vote isn't occurring without "whatever the chiefs are going to do" so all this handwringing about the royals blowing it is really unnecessary.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 12:24 am
by GRID
KC people are more excited about a stupid redecky gigantic gas station opening on Noland Road and I-70 than a downtown baseball stadium. I'm constantly trying to educate people about all the things DColeKC is talking about. 90% of the fans are totally clueless about the economics of baseball and how a small market like KC is not going to keep the Royals much longer if they don't get a new stadium. But most do not want to hear it and would rather the Royals just leave. It's really messed up.
But by god they are excited about Wallys and Buccees. I swear most people in KC want that city to be a giant Oak Grove.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 4:38 am
by FangKC
A new Royals stadium will be expensive. Fixing a crumbling Kauffman Stadium will be too
...
According to a report released by Populous in 2022, a stadium design firm that’s done work for nearly all MLB teams, The K suffers from severe structural issues that would cost more to fix than a new stadium would be to build. Architects see the benefit of building a new stadium tailored to current trends. While the Populous study supposes that the K is beyond repair, it is possible to renovate.
...
According to a report released by Populous in 2022, a stadium design firm that’s done work for nearly all MLB teams, The K suffers from severe structural issues that would cost more to fix than a new stadium would be to build. Architects see the benefit of building a new stadium tailored to current trends. While the Populous study supposes that the K is beyond repair, it is possible to renovate.
...
According to a report released by Populous in 2022, a stadium design firm that’s done work for nearly all MLB teams, The K suffers from severe structural issues that would cost more to fix than a new stadium would be to build. Architects see the benefit of building a new stadium tailored to current trends. While the Populous study supposes that the K is beyond repair, it is possible to renovate.
...
“I don't know how widely spread that ugly-looking concrete is,” Darwin said. “But if you were told, ‘I can give you a brand new house, I can repair your house. The new house would be more modern, really nice, look really spiffy, and the price is identical.’ Well, then the question becomes: how emotionally connected are you to your current house?”
...
There are new materials that help prevent ASR and steel corrosion that didn’t exist in the 1970s when the K was built. While Kauffman Stadium seems doomed to last only about 50 years, the next one should be able to last longer, if ownership and fans think it’s worth it.
...
https://www.kcur.org/news/2023-11-09/a- ... ill-be-too
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:29 am
by KCPowercat
GRID wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 12:24 am
KC people are more excited about a stupid redecky gigantic gas station opening on Noland Road and I-70 than a downtown baseball stadium. I'm constantly trying to educate people about all the things DColeKC is talking about. 90% of the fans are totally clueless about the economics of baseball and how a small market like KC is not going to keep the Royals much longer if they don't get a new stadium. But most do not want to hear it and would rather the Royals just leave. It's really messed up.
But by god they are excited about Wallys and Buccees. I swear most people in KC want that city to be a giant Oak Grove.
Cheaper food at s new gas station vs stadium
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:46 pm
by DMNBT_RCJH
KC Star reporting KC Star site back on the table.
https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-c ... =247774433
Huge (but could be a negotiating ploy nonetheless).
Interesting tidbit in the article:
Last week, Royals owner John Sherman and team president Brooks Sherman, who are not related, were scheduled to meet with Mayor Quinton Lucas at Populous, the chosen designers for the new Royals ballpark, in a gathering that also included Blake Cordish, records obtained by The Star show. Cordish is a principal at the Cordish Companies, the developer behind Kansas City’s Power & Light District and One Light, Two Light and Three Light luxury apartments. The company has developed several sports-anchored districts across the country. It is the first time any member of the company has been publicly identified as being involved in the Royals’ stadium meetings.
Read more at:
https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-c ... rylink=cpy
Keep in mind, KC Star has the best through line to the Royals via Sam Mellinger.
Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:58 pm
by GRID
Would be an amazing location. Imagine it being tied to the 670 park.
Then just let the East Village build out, maybe around a new soccer stadium.