Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

[beautyfromashes]

Anyways, let's do this:
1. Renew the existing Stadium Sales Tax, ideally increase to bi-state/regional
2. Renew and increase the Transit Tax, ideally bi-state/regional
3. TIF & CID for new Royals Stadium & Chiefs Stadium to capture increased sales.

Buy What:
1. New Kauffman Downtown in East Village, with a bunch of apartments/condos whatever. Make it more a neighborhood vs. Ballpark Village, we already have that in PnL.
2. Infrastructure improvements: Bike lanes/easy access to Streetcar line from new EV Stadium. Re-configure onramps on East Loop in alignment with Beyond the Loop goals to expedite getting cars out of DT quickly and efficiently. New structured parking in EV, leverage underutilized parking through UC through creation of Parking Authority. Cap south loop. Remove N Loop.
3. Build the damn streetcar to Arrowhead, center running priority lights. Use it as a park and ride for downtown. Huge development catalyst for East Side redevelopment. Streetcar to NKC (more park & ride opportunities). Streetcar to CasinoKC (more park and ride opportunities). It's a .4 mile walk from 12th & Main to 12th & Cherry. It's longer to go from the edge of Lot L in TSC to the nearest gate of Arrowhead.
4. Create Chiefs Entertainment village where K used to be and then build out residential and infrastructure improvements in the vacant and dilapidated area arround Arrowhead that are now connected by Streetcar to Downtown.
5. Implement OneKC Ride or whatever regional transit plan the RideKC is working on.

I'm good with every bit of this!

[earthling]

#3 might be most difficult to pull off but nice broad plan at high level.

[alejandro46]

Streetcar to NKC (more park & ride opportunities).

You haven’t been in NKC in a while if you think there’s PnR opportunities along Burlington.

Especially not on the scale of hundreds of people an hour.

It’s best opportunity is to replace bus service so busses going downtown can have more coverage in the north instead.

I have been to NKC plenty and used to work there, there's always been a good deal of parking except like right after work and sometimes weekends near Chicken and Pickle. I guess I agree there would need to be some kind of structured parking added there anypnr. They would probably want to add meters in anyways too.

[flyingember]

Streetcar to NKC (more park & ride opportunities).

You haven’t been in NKC in a while if you think there’s PnR opportunities along Burlington.

Especially not on the scale of hundreds of people an hour.

It’s best opportunity is to replace bus service so busses going downtown can have more coverage in the north instead.

I have been to NKC plenty and used to work there, there's always been a good deal of parking except like right after work and sometimes weekends near Chicken and Pickle. I guess I agree there would need to be some kind of structured parking added there anypnr. They would probably want to add meters in anyways too.

The point is adding parking to support transit means we designed the transit network wrong.

[shinatoo]

It's completely ridiculous any large city is discussing demolishing a domed stadium that opened 25-years-ago, and an entire convention center complex that is 44-years-old -- only to rebuild a completely new convention center.

What then? Oh, someone will insist they build another new football stadium to lure yet another team there. Then in 20 years, that team will leave.

World has changed a lot in the last 25 years.

[phuqueue]

Adding parking to support transit means we designed the city wrong.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Adding parking to support transit means we designed the city wrong.

*points to the last 60 years of American city planning and design* well obviously that’s the case

[normalthings]

Adding parking to support transit means we designed the city wrong.

We should not be adding many park and ride garages. Replace some existing parking or to support TOD, sure but not just for ride and park.

[alejandro46]

Adding parking to support transit means we designed the city wrong.

We should not be adding many park and ride garages. Replace some existing parking or to support TOD, sure but not just for ride and park.

All good points, I guess fair that park and ride wouldn't work in NKC. May as well drive 5 more minutes to the casino and use their existing parking lot.

[phuqueue]

I don't remember the last time I went north of the river for any reason other than to use the airport, so I don't speak as somebody familiar with the area, but I don't see why anybody would park in NKC to take the streetcar instead of just continuing in their car into downtown. It's not difficult or expensive to drive into or park downtown, and if you're already in NKC then you're almost there anyway, so I'm not sure what the upside is for someone who's already in their car to get out of it and take the streetcar over the river. Is there something I'm missing here? P&R might make more sense further out (though even then, only if the rail option provides some kind of advantage over driving), but only because further out we've built low-density, unwalkable suburban sprawl that can't support a reasonable level of transit service no matter how you design your network.

[flyingember]

but only because further out we've built low-density, unwalkable suburban sprawl that can't support a reasonable level of transit service no matter how you design your network.

Guess which area has bus service suspended for Covid?

Is it the northland build four story apartment complex next door to another four story complex and a senior living complex 9.5 miles from downtown? Hundreds of units

Or is it the Jackson County single family home neighborhood 11.7 miles from downtown that's past a giant dead spot with next to zero people living on it.

Find those spots on a map and you might have noticed I picked two places at 63rd St and both near a major road to a freeway.

[AlkaliAxel]

Bottom line we gotta get this streetcar down Wornall beyond Brookside somehow

[shinatoo]

Bottom line we gotta get this streetcar down Wornall beyond Brookside somehow

There is no desire, or density, or potential development, to support street car south through Brookside.

Best case would be east across UMKC and south on Troost.

[DaveKCMO]

Yeah, that's not the bottom line. Sorry.

[AlkaliAxel]

Is streetcar looking more strongly into E-W route or North of the river route first? Or could it be both at same time?

[DaveKCMO]

Is streetcar looking more strongly into E-W route or North of the river route first? Or could it be both at same time?

Yes.

[earthling]

Would be impressive if an E/W line were approved and solidly financed within this decade in addition to NKC.

[flyingember]

It feels like the third round of construction needs to two things

1. a triskelion system of three functional routes.

NKC to UMKC
NKC to Indep Ave
Indep Ave to UMKC

2. UMKC down Troost and crossing 63rd to Swope Park, passing by Research Medical.

Don't look at where the line goes, look at what it crosses.
Today's 18, 21 71, 85, 25, 55, 401, 29, 47, 550 and all three current max lines would intercept that route between the plaza and the terminus

And it will enable the project at 63rd/Prospect to be TOD-centric with less parking among other benefits

[wahoowa]

hold on hold on. are those three routes truly triskelionic? it seems to me they probably aren't. perhaps some visual aids would help get to the bottom of this.

[normalthings]

We are already building a very big and nice station at 51st street. I feel like the only direction is south and not back up and over to troost. Maybe down CC ROW to 63rd and then over to the Zoo