KCRag Forum

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 1:45 pm

Highlander wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 11:27 am

earthling wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:03 am For pedestrian street, Nichols Rd is truly doable as the logistics are already figured out and has been in practice for decades with the Plaza Art Fair. The rest of the roads can't be blocked for the most part w/out blocking the garages.

Nichols Rd should be turned into a true full time real Euro style "plaza". At least one block, the rest can be seasonal or for events. And The Plaza should offer more outdoor events year round, like once a month.

Check out google maps. As you probably know, the entrances to the garages on Central, Wyandotte and Pennsylvania are generally only a quarter of a block or so off of Ward Parkway or 47th so about 80% of these streets could be turned over to pedestrians only. These streets do not carry that much traffic and are not that critical beyond access to garages. Wornall/Broadway, Jefferson and Baltimore could remain as through going streets. As for deliveries, where needed, they can use the pedestrianized streets as access. Delivery trucks use pedestrian streets in Europe for access on a regular basis.

Yeah this is easily the right move. Question is how do we ever get this to happen.

Twitter?

One would need buy-in from the major property owners.

I know the benefits of making a street like Nichols pedestrian-only, but what about the Plaza's history as the first shopping center to accommodate vehicles? A move like this would directly contradict this and remove a piece of the Plaza's claim to fame. I understand not every street would be shut down, but still...

^Nichols is only a few blocks with no single access to garages. The Plaza's claim to fame is its architecture and mostly dedicated shopping district, that happened to enable car dependency, which is a 20th century concept we shouldn't continue to embrace. Broader mixed use with even more pedestrian friendliness is the direction the Plaza needs to embrace for the 21st century. A true Plaza courtyard or pedestrian stretch would help as will the streetcar running by.

Could start with 2 blocks of Nichols and expand a couple more blocks in future if successful.

It's not necessary to celebrate the Plaza's role in dragging our cities in exactly the wrong direction. Its new "claim to fame" can be incrementally reversing a little bit of the destruction wrought by the mindset that produced it in the first place.

phuqueue wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 10:19 am It's not necessary to celebrate the Plaza's role in dragging our cities in exactly the wrong direction. Its new "claim to fame" can be incrementally reversing a little bit of the destruction wrought by the mindset that produced it in the first place.

Bingo. It isn’t necessary even to completely change to roads of the entire Plaza, one or two to start would be more than enough to start getting the ball rolling

If car centrism is inseparable from the plaza, then it deserves to be demolished

Clearly, the vast majority of this forum thinks that Nichols Road should be made into a pedestrian only street. I also hear the same from many of my non-urbanist very auto-centric friends and family. It seems like a no-brainer but the question almost never comes up in any public discussion. There seems to be absolutely no official movement towards converting Nichols Road into a pedestrian only mall. Are the owners of the plaza deaf or is there something we do not know that makes this a challenging project?

While on the subject, I was thinking that if Nichols was pedestrianized, it would be a magnet for restaurants because of the safe outdoor seating they could offer in the warmer months.

Highlander wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 11:01 am Are the owners of the plaza deaf or is there something we do not know that makes this a challenging project?

As discussed earlier the two owners fundamentals are not looking good, possibly approaching bankruptcy territory if things don't improve...

Likely don't have the resources to make such capital improvements. The Plaza needs a more diversified owner more experienced with mixed-used, not a mall operator unable to adapt.

earthling wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 12:08 pm

Highlander wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 11:01 am Are the owners of the plaza deaf or is there something we do not know that makes this a challenging project?

As discussed earlier the two owners fundamentals are not looking good, possibly approaching bankruptcy territory if things don't improve...

Likely don't have the resources to make such capital improvements. The Plaza needs a more diversified owner more experienced with mixed-used, not a mall operator unable to adapt.

I still would try to make the case that they’d make more money by going pedestrian only.

I’d liken it to Denver’s 16th street mall. All pedestrian, and it’s the crown jewel of downtown Denver- and I think Plaza would be even better than that

earthling wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 12:08 pm Likely don't have the resources to make such capital improvements. The Plaza needs a more diversified owner more experienced with mixed-used, not a mall operator unable to adapt.

Amen. The Plaza is a weird animal. It's not a mall, and the owners need to stop treating it like one.

earthling wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 12:08 pm

Highlander wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 11:01 am Are the owners of the plaza deaf or is there something we do not know that makes this a challenging project?

As discussed earlier the two owners fundamentals are not looking good, possibly approaching bankruptcy territory if things don't improve...

Likely don't have the resources to make such capital improvements. The Plaza needs a more diversified owner more experienced with mixed-used, not a mall operator unable to adapt.

Of course, this could also spur a drop in rents demanded by the owners in order to bring in every available dollar and avoid bankruptcy. Could bring more local and different types of businesses. Will be interesting to watch.

Cocina 47 needs better renderings. Looks like a stuco box (maybe it is?)

Goonies wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 10:58 pm City scene and the west plaza neighborhood are complaining about Cocina47 ugh

Still can't believe people pay for CityScene when the Rag is free.

chaglang wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:10 pm

Goonies wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 10:58 pm City scene and the west plaza neighborhood are complaining about Cocina47 ugh

Still can't believe people pay for CityScene when the Rag is free.

CityScene gives alot more detailed info than Rag does. Also whenever you ask people on Rag for info they give such vague answers that you have to go to a publication to figure out what’s even going on.

chaglang wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:10 pm

Goonies wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 10:58 pm City scene and the west plaza neighborhood are complaining about Cocina47 ugh

Still can't believe people pay for CityScene when the Rag is free.

I’m happy to support Kevin in his covering KC Development, as well as sourcing info from the rag, they can coexist well together

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:42 pm

chaglang wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:10 pm

Goonies wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 10:58 pm City scene and the west plaza neighborhood are complaining about Cocina47 ugh

Still can't believe people pay for CityScene when the Rag is free.

I’m happy to support Kevin in his covering KC Development, as well as sourcing info from the rag, they can coexist well together

He also sources information and does leg work to get stories in a consistent way that only works if the person is being paid/making money

I heard from a very reliable source that Cocina 47 is moving forward and there are new renderings as of yesterday for the project.

Aloft and Tribute Portfolio hotels
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kvKFd7 ... sp=sharing

Karambit25 wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 1:40 pm Aloft and Tribute Portfolio hotels
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kvKFd7 ... sp=sharing

What is that link