KCRag Forum

Highlander wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:42 pm

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:09 pm shouldn't experiences like Sprint Center events get people more comfortable?

That's probably the case for many but I still see a lot of opposition in comments sections every time the subject comes up. Now it could be a serious question again.

I'd like to know what areas of downtown Sherman is thinking of?

If “a lot” is the same 30 people over and over, there’s no practical opposition

KC loves change that's for sure.

Unfortunately, the old season ticket holder base love The K.
They were the ones who squashed the idea of a downtown stadium last time before the renovation and I doubt their minds have changed since then.
I myself would love a downtown stadium but unfortunately most of Kansas City is run by people who are scared of change.

beermestrength wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:46 pm Unfortunately, the old season ticket holder base love The K.
They were the ones who squashed the idea of a downtown stadium last time before the renovation and I doubt their minds have changed since then.
I myself would love a downtown stadium but unfortunately most of Kansas City is run by people who are scared of change.

The Star had a poll (I think it was a couple of years ago) regarding a downtown stadium and Kaufman was preferred by an overwhelming margin). I like Kaufman, it has a great history, but I hate its setting and would love to see a downtown stadium. The no downtown mindset that can be changed as the airport vote demonstrated and the Sprint Center has opened up some minds to downtown venues. I think the Kaufman thing would change very quickly if the Royals ever threatened to leave over it.

Of course, the other battle will be to find a suitable location downtown. Not sure what really would work. North Loop, South Crossroads, Washington Park?

If it goes downtown, west bottoms or east crossroads/18th and vine. The central parts of downtown should be reserved for higher density development

Penn Valley Park where the ballfields are now. Great view of downtown.

We have to maximize our streetcar investment imo. West bottoms is out.

Make a new line to wherever is chosen as part of the deal. 18th/Vine is the best option imho.

By Airport.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:56 am We have to maximize our streetcar investment imo. West bottoms is out.

Then send the streetcar down there.

That sounds like additional investment not maximizing our current investment.

There is no reason to put the stadium anywhere near the current streetcar line.

Bundle the new line in to any agreement for a stadium.

Many of the suggestions are not really downtown (e.g, 18th/Vine, West Bottoms). To really get the benefit of being downtown, there are only a few options available. Looking at the footprint of Kaufman stadium, it would fit in the East Village area, possibly the north loop and in the area just east of the new Novel restaurant (although it would take out CMH's parking area). Washington Park may have enough space but would be challenged.

I can't think of any other areas in the greater downtown area that would fit the bill. I think 18th/Vine is just too far away (it's not that far from the old Municipal Stadium).

We should want this to make downtown bigger, an impetus to push development outward. East Village would fit the bill also.

It is currently a 23 minute walk from 18th/Vine to the streetcar line. Even if you didn't build a line down 18th street, with scooters/bikes/uber the distance in negligible.

Moving stadium downtown might help the after game experience but no longer really needed as a downtown booster. Downtown needs to continue building up momentum that doesn't rely on events. A highly functioning downtown doesn't rely on events. The momentum is there but doubling residential population and bringing back jobs should probably be a higher priority than publicly funding a new stadium. Ten years ago I would've supported a downtown stadium to help build momentum, but there are already a lot of events. Increasing population/jobs is where the focus should be at this point.

That said, 18th/Vine area or Indep Ave near E Loop... or wherever another streetcar extension occurs near freeway exits. If JoCo will help fund stadium.

I would support East village or 18th and Vine as long as it doesn't involve surface parking and has some residential element to it.

earthling wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:39 am Moving stadium downtown might help the after game experience but no longer really needed as a downtown booster. Downtown needs to continue building up momentum that doesn't rely on events. A highly functioning downtown doesn't rely on events. The momentum is there but doubling residential population and bringing back jobs should probably be a higher priority than publicly funding a new stadium. Ten years ago I would've supported a downtown stadium to help build momentum, but there are already a lot of events. Increasing population/jobs is where the focus should be at this point.

That said, 18th/Vine area or Indep Ave near E Loop... or wherever another streetcar extension occurs near freeway exits. If JoCo will help fund stadium.

I'm all for a downtown stadium provided an optimal location can be found. It's not about benefiting downtown anymore for me, it's about enhancing a day/night at a Royals game. As it is, you drive to TSC see a game, wait forever for the parking lot to clear, and go home. The challenge will be to find the optimal location and there are plenty of places "downtown" that can take a stadium with minimal to no barrier to downtown growth. East Village is first and foremost. While development has been accelerated along the streetcar line, the east and north loop are pretty moribund in terms of growth and potential in the foreseeable future. I think a downtown stadium would be a hard sell to most in Johnson County; the only way to get support for that would be a threat by the Royals to leave the metro.

I have to wonder, however, why the new owners would want a downtown stadium as the Royals would no longer control parking revenues and would have stiff competition for food/alcohol sales with nearby restaurants/bars. My guess is that he believes the enhanced experience would bring more people to games which is probably true once the more urban-shy fans learn the ropes of parking/transportation.

I was a big advocate for a downtown stadium before renovations and when Downtown KC was a big mess. Now, I would actually probably pass on it unless they put it in the right place. The locations people keep coming up with are terrible. By far, the best location for stadium would have been in the south part of the east crossroads, probably near the RR tracks. I guess that would be the childrens mercy parking lots? That area is now being developed. You don't want a big baseball stadium anywhere near the core of downtown, too close to the streetcar, or any place that you are trying to make a vibrant area. you want it on the edge of downtown hopefully with one side near areas that would be okay being overwhelmed with parking structures and parking lots.

I have lived in the DC/Baltimore area for some time now and know both of those stadium areas well. I have also been to every MLB park in the country. Even when the ballparks are downtown, they are just massive dead areas except right before and after a game and then it's just a mess of people trying to get to and from the stadium. The stadiums area in Baltimore is DEAD all the time, except when games are happening. The footprint of the stadium and the roads they need and the parking is just too much. But they are easily walkable to the core of the downtown and the inner harbor, so they add to downtown without messing up downtown.

DC is a little better because it has become so built up around the stadium. I'm talking dozens and dozens of 12 story buildings have filed nearly every lot in the area. But the area around the stadium is still pretty dead. Denver, San Diego, Seattle, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Detroit, all same deal. The stadium areas are the least vibrant parts of the cities. In Denver, the stadium is on the edge of LoDo, in San Diego, it's on the edge of gaslamp, in Minneapolis, it's on far of edge of downtown and it's a ghost town around the stadium when not in use. That's what needs to happen in KC. Put it near downtown within a 5-10 minute walk, but keep it away from the core. The parking and footprint will be just too much and will overwhelm downtown. And the streetcar will do almost nothing. Even in cities with true "mass" transit a stadium creates a huge amounts of demand for parking. A few hundred people taking the streetcar is not really going to change much, but it will be a great option and enhance the game experience for those that do use it.

The project going in at the cmh parking lots looks nice, but that would have been the absolute perfect place for a stadium. Walking distance to downtown, crown center, union station and 18th and vine, yet in an area where it would be okay to have a big dead zone when the stadium is not used. Highway access and places to put up a couple of parking structures to the east. I don't think there is another location downtown that would be worth moving the stadium now.

You are pretty much describing the KCATA property along 18th street (Which is what was highlighted in the previous posts). Its not actually at 18th and Vine, but on the edge. Its also not actually in the Xroads, but just on the edge. It is a dead spot between two districts next to a highway and is surrounded by light industrial.

If JoCo helps out in some way (and it probably won't happen so new stadium shouldn't happen). Even w/out stadium, an 18th/Vine to SW Blvd might be a good candidate for streetcar. However a streetcar just for stadiums doesn't make sense and Indep Ave already has the density so E Loop or other side of loop might be a good combo of stadium/streetcar/existing density. That could become a KC version of Wrigleyville in 20-30 years. Large public garages for games could also be used as P&R off freeway for daily use into downtown, keeping cars out of downtown.