Downtown Baseball Stadium

[FangKC]

Zoning change maybe racial? An uninhabited light industrial zone buffer between downtown and the East Side? Could it become residential and still be mixed with light industrial like Zahner? Would have to relocate all the homeless ministries and outreaches for most people to be comfortable living there. Just east of Paseo is there any way to put back the now vanished intersection of 12th St & Vine? The song is about this intersection, not 18th & Vine.

Yes, it was certainly the policy of "negro clearance."

Homeless outreach can be done anywhere. Remember that the City Union Mission used to be in the River Market at 4th and Wyandotte, and the Helping Hand Institute was at Missouri and Grand. The 523 Grand Lofts used to be the Helping Hand Institute.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.108027 ... 384!8i8192

https://kchistory.org/document/biograph ... 0Institute

It's always annoyed me that homeless services are spread among so many places. There should be one central location that provides all services, but many institutions contribute to running the services. With the KC Public School District constantly shedding school buildings, it would seem a former school building would be a good opportunity to center all the services in one facility. There are certain attributes of a school that would immediately make them ideal: office space, cafeteria, refrigeration, multiple bathrooms, shower rooms, lockers, food and supply storage, gym, and outside play areas. etc.

I guess anything is possible with 12th and Vine with the right City leadership. The street indent for Vine is still there.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.099654, ... a=!3m1!1e3



Above: The south side of East 12th Street east of Vine.

If the baseball stadium district gets built in the East Village, Paseo East will start being eyed for development.

[FangKC]

Designing Downtown Baseball in Kansas City
Thinking long-term about creating a successful new ballpark for the Royals

Kevin Klinkenberg

https://kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/p ... -in-kansas

[TheUrbanRoo]

Designing Downtown Baseball in Kansas City
Thinking long-term about creating a successful new ballpark for the Royals

Kevin Klinkenberg

https://kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/p ... -in-kansas

Honestly I actually like his Midtown site idea better than 18th & Vine or any other random sites thrown around. It would be super urban with both streetcar lines along the site. And finally give Midtown a true jolt that it needs. I imagine Midtown would end up feeling like the Wrigley neighborhood in Chicago.

I wish he'd spent more time talking about the EV site development though. He only gave it like two sentences. I think he's downplaying the skyline you could build up around EV and the development that could be constructed around it.

[Highlander]

Designing Downtown Baseball in Kansas City
Thinking long-term about creating a successful new ballpark for the Royals

Kevin Klinkenberg

https://kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/p ... -in-kansas

He's has some points but not sure about his alternative site. I think that midtown market area is just too popular among residents to mess with regardless of its poor design. It would be easier to take out the Flashcube building for a north loop park than Cotsco Home Depot.

He's also right that all the named locations have a lot of hair on them. None will be optimal. Given that challenge, I still think East Village is probably the best location.

Here are my pros and cons:
1. Pro: the land is available and it's flat and without the need for any major grade work and almost nothing has to be torn down
2. Pro: It's within the downtown loop
3. Pro: It's a huge vacant stretch of land downtown that will take a few generations to infill at the current rate without a stadium.
4. Pro: Additional land is available for parking structures and co-development as envisioned by the owners
5. Pro-ish: While it's off the streetcar line, it's not that far from the street car line (see below)

1. Con: Public Transportation. It's not on the street car line. I think KC could at least explore a short E-W streetcar that attaches the new ballpark and the government district back to the Main Street corridor.
2. Con: The I29/I35 barrier. As Klinkenberg says, that's a barrier most people coming to the game will not want to cross. Overpasses make it less of a barrier and they exist on 9th and 10th but 11th and 12th are underpasses and I know suburban crowds well enough to know of their discomfort passing through urban interstate underpasses especially into an area they might consider suspect.
3. Con: What's on the other side of I29/I35. I was down in that area last week and it can make one a little uneasy. Having a concentration of homeless assistance services will certainly put the stadium in very close proximity to an element most stadium goers will not feel comfortable with. This stuff can be moved (as Fang points out) but to where and there is a lot of it. There is otherwise some pretty interesting building stock in that area. Look at some of the buildings and old homes on Admiral.
4. Con: There is presently nothing in East Village of interest. Absolutely everything that would be of interest to fans would have to be built.
5. Con: View. No DT view without a western vector for the axis of the stadium. Also would have to be built.
6. Con: Another entertainment district downtown and in direct competition with the city subsidized Power & Light district. Would it only be viable in the summer during games?

A lot of possibilities in KC are eliminated due to the huge amount of space that is devoted to interstate highways crisscrossing the urban core. It's such an impediment to any grand scale plans for the city.

[TheUrbanRoo]

3. Pro: It's a huge vacant stretch of land downtown that will take a few generations to infill at the current rate without a stadium.

No pun intended, but this is basically the whole ballgame right here

[FlippantCitizen]

Never considered midtown marketplace as a site, but in many ways it would be an amazing alternate scenario to consider the possibilities even if it never goes beyond thought experiment.

Obviously Costco and Home Depot are huge assets to have in the city, I use both stores and appreciate their presence. But their terrible suburban format on an important location are not excused by the advantages of having them. I agree with Klinkenberg that something will have to change with that site in the next 25 years.

[FangKC]

I can't believe everyone is focusing on Midtown Marketplace (including Kevin Klinkenberg) and not realizing that there is just as good a location catty-cornered across the street where the car dealership is. Not that I'm endorsing this site.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0696633 ... a=!3m1!1e3

I think people are making too much of the walk between 12th and Cherry and P&L. I don't think the vast majority of baseball attendees are going to be at P&L before and after games. Some yes, but they are probably young people who won't think walking five blocks is a big deal. Most will enjoy refreshments at the game, and go home afterward. When I lived downtown, I used to walk regularly 9 1/2 blocks from Quality Hill to the old library at 12th and McGee and back, and then later 5 blocks to the new library and back. It was no big deal.

There is always the possibility of a streetcar along 12th.

When 12th from Grand to Oak gets developed, it will be just be two blocks of excruciating walking past government buildings. Cordish can't count on other developers not putting retail in their projects.

There is never going to be a perfect location.

[Cratedigger]

I think people are making too much of the walk between 12th and Cherry and P&L. I don't think the vast majority of baseball attendees are going to be at P&L before and after games. Some yes, but they are probably young people who won't think walking five blocks is a big deal. Most will enjoy refreshments at the game, and go home afterward. When I lived downtown, I used to walk regularly 9 1/2 blocks from Quality Hill to the old library at 12th and McGee and back, and then later 5 blocks to the new library and back. It was no big deal.

Yeah no one I know cares about the walk - but there are a lot of people that are concerned about safety. They feel safe in P&L

There is always the possibility of a streetcar along 12th.

A streetcar from the West Bottoms to the stadium (or onto Gates Plaza) is one of my favorite potential routes

[FangKC]

Yeah no one I know cares about the walk - but there are a lot of people that are concerned about safety. They feel safe in P&L

Do people realize the East Village is right next to Police Headquarters?

[langosta]

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[FangKC]

There are 40,000 parking spaces downtown. The stadium won't have that capacity. Why would Paseo West need to become surface parking?

[langosta]

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[GRID]

There are 40,000 parking spaces downtown. The stadium won't have that capacity. Why would Paseo West need to become surface parking?

Trust me. There will be ton of surface parking lots that will pop up to serve the stadium. Things will be torn down in west paseo for parking. That entire area could and probably will become a sea of parking lots because developing that area into high density would take decades.

Path of least resistance. Look at any urban stadium. People will pay to park a block away even though there are a dozen garages 3 blocks away.

[Cratedigger]

Yeah no one I know cares about the walk - but there are a lot of people that are concerned about safety. They feel safe in P&L

Do people realize the East Village is right next to Police Headquarters?

.

[langosta]

.

[KCPowercat]

There are 40,000 parking spaces downtown. The stadium won't have that capacity. Why would Paseo West need to become surface parking?

Trust me. There will be ton of surface parking lots that will pop up to serve the stadium. Things will be torn down in west paseo for parking. That entire area could and probably will become a sea of parking lots because developing that area into high density would take decades.

Path of least resistance. Look at any urban stadium. People will pay to park a block away even though there are a dozen garages 3 blocks away.

Seems like something we should put a zoning overlay and disallow. Agreed it will happen.

[FangKC]

Yes, the City should get ahead of it.

[taxi]

Land assembly is a huge challenge and can take a very long time – especially if you announce the location before all required parcels are secured. Consequently, it will come down to EV or NKC.

[Cratedigger]

Land assembly is a huge challenge and can take a very long time – especially if you announce the location before all required parcels are secured. Consequently, it will come down to EV or NKC.

Yup

[TheUrbanRoo]

City Council supports selling land over to Van Trust

Land now so close to assembled

https://twitter.com/cityscenekc/status/ ... RPpXS0iFBA