KCMO Downtown Streetcar

[KCPowercat]

I found it annoying that you had to push the button to open the doors to get out at stops, especially since it was crowded and hard to get to the button.

I'm torn...pushing the button isn't difficult and it lights up when it's active...keeping unused doors closed unless needed could also help with keeping car temps normalized...but when I want to leave it would be nice if they just opened I can see if the train is super crowded it would be nice if they would just open all the doors at a stop.

[dnweava]

I found it annoying that you had to push the button to open the doors to get out at stops, especially since it was crowded and hard to get to the button.

I'm torn...pushing the button isn't difficult and it lights up when it's active...keeping unused doors closed unless needed could also help with keeping car temps normalized...but when I want to leave it would be nice if they just opened I can see if the train is super crowded it would be nice if they would just open all the doors at a stop.

That would be a good policy, if it's busy then automatically open every door at every stop. If it's not busy, then let the riders push the button.

[flyingember]

KC Streetcar, inducing demand since 2016.

[aknowledgeableperson]

I've seen the mayor and a couple councilmembers imply that they want citizens to speak up and make expansion happen. I took this as them wanting it to get done by petition. I'm assuming something is in the works but where are we on that?

you'll need to drown out the naysayers a lot more, especially after the airport poll came back so bad. my assumption is that it has spooked everyone, as if the electorate has somehow turned on a dime and is suddenly no longer progressive when it comes to taxation (sort of forgetting that the airport vote wouldn't have increased taxes).

Isn't that the best way to expand the system? Have the demand to expand create the expansion instead of having it come down from those on top. Maybe then you would have something better in expansion than the last election.

[smh]

KC Streetcar, inducing demand since 2016.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

I've seen the mayor and a couple councilmembers imply that they want citizens to speak up and make expansion happen. I took this as them wanting it to get done by petition. I'm assuming something is in the works but where are we on that?

you'll need to drown out the naysayers a lot more, especially after the airport poll came back so bad. my assumption is that it has spooked everyone, as if the electorate has somehow turned on a dime and is suddenly no longer progressive when it comes to taxation (sort of forgetting that the airport vote wouldn't have increased taxes).

Is a petition not an option? Surely, it doesn't have to come from city hall.

[flyingember]

Is a petition not an option? Surely, it doesn't have to come from city hall.

A citizen petition can file a TDD plan, the numbers are quite low to get it through to a judge. But my guess you would have a problem arguing before a judge that a petition with only 50 signatures could cover down to the plaza west of troost is fair and be constitutional to go before the district for a vote. And if you can get all non-residential property owners on board for the petition the vote from them would be really easy to do at that point and would give a notable percentage of the income the district could give

Also, as you can see it CAN'T come from city hall. The Phase 2 pertition was from the port authority and kcata, for example.

rsmo 238.207

Whenever the creation of a district is desired, not less than fifty registered voters from each county partially or totally within the proposed district may file a petition requesting the creation of a district. However, if no persons eligible to be registered voters reside within the district, the owners of record of all of the real property, except public streets, located within the proposed district may file a petition requesting the creation of a district. The petition shall be filed in the circuit court of any county partially or totally within the proposed district.

Alternatively, the governing body of any local transportation authority within any county in which a proposed project may be located may file a petition in the circuit court of that county, requesting the creation of a district.

[cityscape]

I rode the streetcar with my family on Sunday. Below are my first impressions.

PROS: Comfortable ride, even though the cars were packed full. Fairly quick from point to point. The drivers are amazing, one of our drives at the Union Station stop got out of the car and asked the people in the first row if they wouldn't mind giving up their seats so an elderly couple who just walked up to the stop could get on and sit there. She then when outside the car and asked if the couple would like to ride, they said they would wait until it was less crowded, to which the drive said "I already cleared up a couple seats for you, so you don't need to worry about waiting" The smile on their faces was priceless. Streetcar was very kid friendly! We have 4 kids under 5 years old and my wife was nervous about how they would behave/manage on the streetcar, but they did great and the driver made a point to wave to them from inside her room.

CONS: The streetcar arrival signs need to be corrected, both the smart kiosk (showed four trains in the same spot on the map for 10 minutes even as we saw one coming towards us, not very SMART, if you ask me), and the arrival boards (completely useless from what I could tell). I suspect the river market on weekends is going to be a nightmare for the streetcar, traffic was very backed up and was the primary reason I would guess for the streetcars not sticking to their schedule. Speaking of traffic, the streetcar needs to start using signal priority, it makes no sense for a streetcar to sit at a stoplight with no cross traffic coming. Lastly, I don't understand why some of the stops are covered and some are not, with the weather yesterday we saw a lot of folks at the financial district stop just walk away when it started raining. It can't cost that much in the grand scheme of things to add an overhang.....

Overall, I was mostly impressed. It was simple, convenient, fun, and most of all encouraging to me and my family as a mode of transportation to get around all the fun things to do downtown with a family of 6! Just need to make a few changes and it will be top notch.

[kboish]

Is a petition not an option? Surely, it doesn't have to come from city hall.

A citizen petition can file a TDD plan, the numbers are quite low to get it through to a judge. But my guess you would have a problem arguing before a judge that a petition with only 50 signatures could cover down to the plaza west of troost is fair and be constitutional to go before the district for a vote. And if you can get all non-residential property owners on board for the petition the vote from them would be really easy to do at that point and would give a notable percentage of the income the district could give

Also, as you can see it CAN'T come from city hall. The Phase 2 pertition was from the port authority and kcata, for example.

rsmo 238.207

Whenever the creation of a district is desired, not less than fifty registered voters from each county partially or totally within the proposed district may file a petition requesting the creation of a district. However, if no persons eligible to be registered voters reside within the district, the owners of record of all of the real property, except public streets, located within the proposed district may file a petition requesting the creation of a district. The petition shall be filed in the circuit court of any county partially or totally within the proposed district.

Alternatively, the governing body of any local transportation authority within any county in which a proposed project may be located may file a petition in the circuit court of that county, requesting the creation of a district.

The city is considered a local transportation authority. And you are incorrect, the City and the Port Authority were the petitioners for the failed Phase II expansion (As you'll recall, the City along with the Port Authority were also the petitioners for phase I- the city, port authority, and kcsa control the TDD board)

http://www.transitworksforus.org/phase- ... -advances/

EDIT: for clarity- you are correct about the the ability of 50 registered voters putting forth a TDD formation for a vote. The part about the size and scope and non-residential property owners, I'm not so sure about...but it may be a good idea.

[earthling]

Am curious what today's ridership will be, a normal day that is. Would think it got a lot of lunchtime riders.

[JBmidtown]

Am curious what today's ridership will be, a normal day that is. Would think it got a lot of lunchtime riders.

It was fairly busy even when I rode around 1:30pm. It was nothing like the weekend crowd but much busier than I expected it to be on a Monday.

The signal priority seemed to work better than over the weekend but there were times green lights didnt hold at intersections. Isn't that one of the benefits of signal priority, that it keeps lights green for MAX and streetcar vehicles?

But elsewise I love the streetcar. I took the Troost MAX to 11th and Main, jumped on the streetcar to 19th and Main and walked maybe 4 blocks to my gym. The frequency, comfort, capacity and marginally improved speed are definitely good selling points for expansion and I imagine it won't take long until the city gets behind more lines. For the first time in the 7 years I've lived here I feel like I live in a real city.

[earthling]

The Buzz crew were also talking about KC 'being a real city' with streetcar. It's amusing to bus people cause it's just another mechanism to get from A to B but it is amazing how perception truly matters to attract more riders. Well free helps too. Is good that radio/media regularly talks about streetcar as it boosts attention (obviously). The next step should be to get people willing to try streetcar to try bus.

The ATA should have 'free Saturday' buses (as long as they can financially do it) for major lines like MAX, 142 from KC North, Indep Ave line, JoCo line, KCK MAX like line - that connect to streetcar. They should promote it via media hype as a 'free streetcar connector from the burbs'. I imagine it would be a huge success but they may have to do it a few months through summer to get people hooked. That should really kickstart transit timid to use bus, using whizbang streetcar as the enabler. Then many may be willing to regularly use with fare after long trial period - $1.50 per ride, $3 day pass. I bet 95%+ of metro have no idea bus is only $3 for a day pass.

Free media promotion scenario.. The Buzz has a Saturday show at P&L Live, they could promote using the 'free suburban streetcar connector buses' to get there and use free streetcar to get to P&L- no hassles wifh finding parking or having to pay for it. It benefits the promoter to get more people to come to show w/out 'perception that downtown doesn't have enough parking''. Many different ways this could be promoted with events.

Maybe KC is a 'real' city with rail but when KC really becomes a real city is when much more of the metro population actually uses transit, no matter the mode.

[DaveKCMO]

The signal priority seemed to work better than over the weekend but there were times green lights didnt hold at intersections. Isn't that one of the benefits of signal priority, that it keeps lights green for MAX and streetcar vehicles?

the streetcar doesn't yet have actual true signal priority. the systems are installed and have been tweaked, but the "priority" button has not been pressed.

the system installed for streetcar (rhythm insync) is in addition to the system MAX uses outside of downtown (opticom). the latter is connected to KCATA's transit management software to hold green lights only if the vehicle is behind schedule (versus simply speeding up all trips by avoiding red lights). rhythm would conceivably take that a step further by reducing the number of red lights the streetcar experiences regardless of the schedule, thereby reducing all trip times.

rest assured, true priority is being discussed and will improve soon. it will be necessary as downtown continues to develop.

on a side note, the automatic pedestrian detection is also an add-on but is coordinated with rhythm. opticom would trump it, i believe, since that system was invented for emergency vehicles. KCPD and KCFD don't use it, i'm told, because they like to just run the lights with lights and sirens blaring.

[mean]

Seems like it'd be somewhat safer, or at least more expedient for them, if they did use it. Anecdotally, it seems more people disregard sirens than red lights.

[flyingember]

The city is considered a local transportation authority. And you are incorrect, the City and the Port Authority were the petitioners for the failed Phase II expansion (As you'll recall, the City along with the Port Authority were also the petitioners for phase I- the city, port authority, and kcsa control the TDD board)

http://www.transitworksforus.org/phase- ... -advances/

EDIT: for clarity- you are correct about the the ability of 50 registered voters putting forth a TDD formation for a vote. The part about the size and scope and non-residential property owners, I'm not so sure about...but it may be a good idea.

I was wrong about the city, but the rest is a literal quote from state law. That is how the two non-government implemented way work. The Plaza TDD is a good example of a 100% non-resident occupied TDD. There's 50+ TDDs formed around shopping centers to pay for the parking lots for every one used for transit.

[JBmidtown]

The smart city kiosks exploded today it seems. I couldn't get any to work.

BUT taking the streetcar back to 12th and Main at 9:00 there were still 25+ people riding in my car. I have almost never seen that many people on any MAX on a weekday. And I ride the bus regularly.

This is going to stay popular for more than just downtown residents. It connects well to other transit routes, which is real nice. I still optimistically believe this is the central catalyst to massive improvements in the transit system.

[DaveKCMO]

real-time arrival signs are off for awhile until the accuracy issues are addressed. if you're curious, you can still use http://itsab.us/tracker or WebWatch on your mobile devices.

[Eon Blue]

I haven't been very impressed with the automatic pedestrian detection. It works, after a fashion, but not promptly enough that I don't have to break stride. At intersections with default pedestrian signals, I can glance each way as I move to check for jaydrivers and only have to stop if I see one. Maybe wanting to not break my stride is an unrealistic expectation and I need to deal with it. Maybe the system can be tweaked. Maybe it will pay off when the true signal priority is implemented and the streetcar glides through downtown like a hot knife through butter.

[KCPowercat]

Ped detection sucks. Worst part of this whole project IMO.

[DaveKCMO]

Ped detection sucks. Worst part of this whole project IMO.

I haven't been very impressed with the automatic pedestrian detection.

they removed several of the 'wall-E' video cameras and i don't think they've been replaced yet (apparently they didn't like moisture). the other 'death star' infrared cameras are working.

you know it's "working" if the red LED on the beg button comes on when you approach the intersection. it should give you a walk signal if you're there before the phase changes, or mid-phase if the system determines there's enough time.

agreed that it's not responsive enough. you have to arrive several seconds before the phase change to be acknowledged, which is a pain.

report issues to 311!