KCRag Forum

My goal on Main in Midtown is the destroy the abomination of that suburban Home Depot

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:37 pm My goal on Main in Midtown is the destroy the abomination of that suburban Home Depot

The money that “abomination” provided has enabled the redevelopment of Armour Blvd into something special again and supported hundreds of home improvement projects for low income home owners. Not to mention it was a god sent for someone rehabbing a 100 year old house in Valentine. Know your history before saying something stupid.

CorneliusFB wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:31 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:37 pm My goal on Main in Midtown is the destroy the abomination of that suburban Home Depot

The money that “abomination” provided has enabled the redevelopment of Armour Blvd into something special again and supported hundreds of home improvement projects for low income home owners. Not to mention it was a god sent for someone rehabbing a 100 year old house in Valentine. Know your history before saying something stupid.

Well someone was bound to complain

CorneliusFB wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:31 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:37 pm My goal on Main in Midtown is the destroy the abomination of that suburban Home Depot

The money that “abomination” provided has enabled the redevelopment of Armour Blvd into something special again and supported hundreds of home improvement projects for low income home owners. Not to mention it was a god sent for someone rehabbing a 100 year old house in Valentine. Know your history before saying something stupid.

Would there be more money to go around if it was a dense mix of retail, entertainment, and living? yes!

normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 1:23 am

CorneliusFB wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:31 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:37 pm My goal on Main in Midtown is the destroy the abomination of that suburban Home Depot

The money that “abomination” provided has enabled the redevelopment of Armour Blvd into something special again and supported hundreds of home improvement projects for low income home owners. Not to mention it was a god sent for someone rehabbing a 100 year old house in Valentine. Know your history before saying something stupid.

Would there be more money to go around if it was a dense mix of retail, entertainment, and living? yes!

But would it actually be a dense mix of retail, entertainment, and living if the Home Depot was never built? No!

The Home Depot is fine, it just needs to be hidden with urbane streetfront development along Main and Linwood, not pad sites. The pad sites are the abomination.

Yes, the HD has been a godsend for me as I'm rehabbing my home. Is it the best configuration for that part of town, no. But I'm glad it's there. Plus the tax revenue from it and Costco has to be huge. Always busy.

Again, lots of other low-hanging fruit in that area can be developed before we start reconfiguring viable and valuable land uses.

Agreed, the HD is poor land use has huge benefits to the area. I've used it to rehab three houses. If it weren't there I'd have spent that money at the Lowe's in Roeland Park. The Costco pulls in shopping dollars from JoCo simply because they sell booze there. Someone should check me on this but I believe that the RAMP funds that those stores contribute to are now also being used for affordable housing funding.

Get the Linwood and Main frontages fully developed and we can talk.

N.B.: There is already an entire thread about this topic.

earthling wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:45 am The Home Depot is fine, it just needs to be hidden with urbane streetfront development along Main and Linwood, not pad sites. The pad sites are the abomination.

They just gotta hide it atleast. It just looks awful when you’re that deep into the city.

@AlkaliAxel - I am sorry for the “saying something stupid” comment. That was uncalled for on my part. You are obviously passionate about this city and I commend you for that. With that said, many of us have been fighting for downtown and midtown all of our professional lives. Midtown Marketplace is a very flawed urban development, and one we would never dream of allowing today (see the main street overlay district for proof), but it was necessary at the time, and I don’t think Midtown is where it is today without that project.

I hope you use your passion to continue improving our City’s urban environment, but please don’t insult the hard work of those who came before by failing to consider the “why” behind what has been done.

and about that Katz project… excited it’s moving forward, hope they reconsider the plan for the original storefront and use it for public facing retail and not just building amenities. Glad to see Lux is investing so much in the City and looking forward to seeing what type of owner they turn out to be.

CorneliusFB wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:32 pm @AlkaliAxel - I am sorry for the “saying something stupid” comment. That was uncalled for on my part. You are obviously passionate about this city and I commend you for that. With that said, many of us have been fighting for downtown and midtown all of our professional lives. Midtown Marketplace is a very flawed urban development, and one we would never dream of allowing today (see the main street overlay district for proof), but it was necessary at the time, and I don’t think Midtown is where it is today without that project.

I hope you use your passion to continue improving our City’s urban environment, but please don’t insult the hard work of those who came before by failing to consider the “why” behind what has been done.

I can tell you that when i moved back to KC in my mid to late 20s, i had a visceral reaction to Costco/HD as well. Hated everything about it and couldn't fathom who could possibly have committed this blunder. A decade later, as a homeowner with 2 kids I can tell you my perspective has evolved on this. I spend a ton of money at HD and recently became a Costco member. This is a huge amenity to have in the heart of the city. Other people who have visited are jealous that we have this when they see it. (not to mention to the millions it has thrown off to support home rehab in the area and fund nearby developments)

The design still sucks and should be addressed. They should have used the expiring TIF to incentivize even just a couple of 50 unit buildings on the main/31st edge of this project. If you hid the huge hole of a parking lot from main at the very least, this would be a gem.

CorneliusFB wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:42 pm and about that Katz project… excited it’s moving forward, hope they reconsider the plan for the original storefront and use it for public facing retail and not just building amenities. Glad to see Lux is investing so much in the City and looking forward to seeing what type of owner they turn out to be.

I thought the plan was for a restaurant or something at the corner of Main and Westport with the frontage on main being that restaurant. My understanding was also that the Westport frontage was amenity space. Could be wrong though. I imagine Lux will do more in KC. People are wanting to be in Kansas City, so there's opportunity to grow.

delete.

CorneliusFB wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:32 pm
failing to consider the “why” behind what has been done.

I understand why it would've worked in a different time period, where maybe Midtown was a shell. But I think that if we're getting to the point where young 20's like myself are confused why there's a suburban Home Depot or Costco sitting in Midtown- then I think that's a sign that it's time for something there to change on that end. At the very least, hide it or cover it. It's a gigantic eyesore and just kills the vibe. It may have been suitable 25 years ago but it's a different time now. People like myself who grew up in the 2010's and have only know an "urbanized" KC think it looks really bad now.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:26 pm

CorneliusFB wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:32 pm
failing to consider the “why” behind what has been done.

I understand why it would've worked in a different time period, where maybe Midtown was a shell. But I think that if we're getting to the point where young 20's like myself are confused why there's a suburban Home Depot or Costco sitting in Midtown- then I think that's a sign that it's time for something there to change on that end. At the very least, hide it or cover it. It's a gigantic eyesore and just kills the vibe. It may have been suitable 25 years ago but it's a different time now. People like myself who grew up in the 2010's and have only know an "urbanized" KC think it looks really bad now.

Discussed at great length here: viewtopic.php?t=1983&start=300

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:26 pm

CorneliusFB wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:32 pm
failing to consider the “why” behind what has been done.

I understand why it would've worked in a different time period, where maybe Midtown was a shell. But I think that if we're getting to the point where young 20's like myself are confused why there's a suburban Home Depot or Costco sitting in Midtown- then I think that's a sign that it's time for something there to change on that end. At the very least, hide it or cover it. It's a gigantic eyesore and just kills the vibe. It may have been suitable 25 years ago but it's a different time now. People like myself who grew up in the 2010's and have only know an "urbanized" KC think it looks really bad now.

Jeez, this is making me feel really old. Turning 41 this week. Joined this site in 2003, almost 20 years ago! Costco was pretty new then. Grew up in KC and, in my teens, remember driving around the Main St corridor and what is now the Xroads back in the late 90s and Midtown was very "vibey" but it's hard to picture now how downtrodden it really was. I'll never forget hanging out (trespassing) around Union Station when I was in high school when it was derelict and basically had a homeless camp next to it. The area of Main where Costco is now, in 1996 the vibe was probably about what 39th and Prospect feels like in 2022.

Obv. there are people on this forum older than I and with deeper connections to Midtown--but it's really eye-opening to understand there are adults living in KC who have only known the "resurgent" KC.

shinatoo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:15 am Yes, the HD has been a godsend for me as I'm rehabbing my home. Is it the best configuration for that part of town, no. But I'm glad it's there. Plus the tax revenue from it and Costco has to be huge. Always busy.

Again, lots of other low-hanging fruit in that area can be developed before we start reconfiguring viable and valuable land uses.

I know Kansans who specifically go to that Costco because of the wine and spirits. Something you cannot get at the Kansas Costco's. The revenue is probably out of proportion to the area it serves.

chrizow wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:41 pm but it's really eye-opening to understand there are adults living in KC who have only known the "resurgent" KC.

Yep. For example I’ve only known a KC with a streetcar.

(Thank you Dave)

And I appreciate all that happened back in the 90’s to set up today’s revival. But you’re absolutely right- people like myself have only known “the good life” KC here in the post-revival days aren’t gonna support seeing a suburban Costco, haha. There’s a big generational gap on the forum of how people view KC. The older crowd, from my vantage point, definitely have a more negative view, because what KC was in their day. And I understand why. That generational gap is what causes some arguments.

For the record, I think this forum's view of Home Depot/Costco has always been that, design-wise, it's an absolute travesty. An entire neighborhood was leveled which, today, would probably be thriving--and especially so once streetcar opens. Some might say the development was a significant catalyst of KC's momentum thereafter but I don't think that's true--I think we would be in a similar position today without the development. That said, we have been Costco members forever and it's a great retail amenity in the urban core--even though it's a design abomination.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:20 pm people like myself have only known “the good life” KC here

Since I have zero interaction with people in their 20s in KC, I am curious - are folks in this age bracket (who don't follow development or geek-out on KC minutiae like us) excited about KC? Like people graduating college or folks looking to relocate for work, do they WANT to go to KC? Or is it more of, "well my job is in KC, which is ok I guess, I hear it's not too bad." I am sure it's not as exciting as Denver, Chicago, whatever, but I would like to think there is some enthusiasm...

There is also another side to this, I suppose. KC's downtown/midtown resurgence is real, and great. But I have discussed with relative newcomers the "vibe" that existed downtown, xroads, midtown in the 90s up through maybe 2010 and it really does seem lost altogether. The area was really dense, seemingly, with a lot of artsy, musician, eccentric people and businesses, much more bohemian than it is now. The time-worn logic of gentrification is that the Main/Broadway corridor should rightly be the "gentrified corridor" and the artsy energy would get pushed elsewhere--and no doubt it kind of has. But from my (admittedly probably out of touch) perspective, I don't know if there is the same "density" there was previously. Artists and the like have dispersed to cheaper areas--Old NE, east side, KCK, whatever, but as far as I can tell there have not been any new "nodes" pop up of any significance. Strawberry Hill might come close. 20 years ago we would have predicted breweries, bars, and eclectic retail on Indep Ave, St. John, Central Ave (KCK), Troost, and for the most part it isn't happening? From this lens, the "older crowd's negativity" could also be nostalgia for kind of a special time in KCMO - when there was a lot of cool stuff, in a small area, and houses and apartments in the city were half (or less) the prices of now. I kind of sense KCMO has lost a lot of its wild soul and as it gentrifies (however slowly) it is becoming more bland, like Indy or something.