KCRag Forum

Critical_Mass wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:34 pm

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:59 am My other thought with this whole discussion in this thread about worrying about 5 star hotels and raising rents is we have a real affordable housing problem in KC and raising rents so we can build shiny new towers probably isn't our main problem right now.

Again way out of scope of this discussion of this dumb small hotel that keeps getting oxygen for some reason.

I still do not believe KC is anywhere near to having an affordable housing problem. There are many many areas inside the metro with very affordable housing, they may just not be the absolute most desirable part of town. I can't afford to have a ribeye steak for lunch every day, but that doesn't mean we have an affordable meal problem in KC.

^In general it would seem that way but KC's rents are rising at a faster rate than wages even though rent increase are below US avg.. IIRC, KC's rent/wage growth ratio is one of the worst in country. One of KC's biggest weaknesses is a per-capita GDP below US avg and it's partly due to below avg wages. Great for biz, not so great for affording housing. KC is still affordable overall but housing costs are rising faster than wages. Maybe it's the wages that should be addressed rather than pressuring affordable housing?

earthling wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:43 pm

Critical_Mass wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:34 pm

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:59 am My other thought with this whole discussion in this thread about worrying about 5 star hotels and raising rents is we have a real affordable housing problem in KC and raising rents so we can build shiny new towers probably isn't our main problem right now.

Again way out of scope of this discussion of this dumb small hotel that keeps getting oxygen for some reason.

I still do not believe KC is anywhere near to having an affordable housing problem. There are many many areas inside the metro with very affordable housing, they may just not be the absolute most desirable part of town. I can't afford to have a ribeye steak for lunch every day, but that doesn't mean we have an affordable meal problem in KC.

^In general it would seem that way but KC's rents are rising at a faster rate than wages even though rent increase are below US avg.. IIRC, KC's rent/wage growth ratio is one of the worst in country. One of KC's biggest weaknesses is a per-capita GDP below US avg and it's partly due to below avg wages. Great for biz, not so great for affording housing. KC is still affordable overall but housing costs are rising faster than wages. Maybe it's the wages that should be addressed rather than pressuring affordable housing?

Isn't that mostly because KC is a bit late to the game as far as luxury urban housing? I feel like KC is still playing catch up with most cities as far rents go, so right now rents are rising faster than incomes, but most cities have already gone through that. Also, I think KC's urban rents are going to flatline soon anyway because of the lack of high paying urban core jobs. Demand to live in the city will eventually slow if more jobs don't come downtown.

Although because the city is basically slowing growth by adding the affordable housing requirements, inventory might become more limited regardless of jobs or new units coming online and that may keep rents going up.

I think it will be interesting to see if the affordable housing thing has long term effects and if the city ends up changing that. Bad thing is KC may lose a year or more of development while it figures that out.

No way does KC have an affordable housing problem though. There are plenty of affordable housing in KC. It may not be in the newest buildings, but KC's is still cheap, even in the urban core. It seems like the city is prematurely slowing growth before KC really even gets a lot of true luxury apartments and builds a reputation for having such a lifestyle.

Was the Ritz-Carlton considered 5 star when it was here, or just 4 star? And what is preventing a property like The Fontaine from being 5 star? If it's new enough it seems the only thing preventing a 5 star rating are services and amenities.

Speaking of the downtown Marriott Muehlbach, if there's a market for 5 star it seems a no-brainer to spend a few bucks to renovate that structure and put something in there.

^^To Grid. Affordable discussion moved here...
viewtopic.php?p=628062#p628062

kcjak wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:08 pm Was the Ritz-Carlton considered 5 star when it was here, or just 4 star? And what is preventing a property like The Fontaine from being 5 star? If it's new enough it seems the only thing preventing a 5 star rating are services and amenities.

Speaking of the downtown Marriott Muehlbach, if there's a market for 5 star it seems a no-brainer to spend a few bucks to renovate that structure and put something in there.

The developers seem to think that a new construction 5 star hotel has certain design benefits that can not be met by an existing building

Why does everyone hate this hotel?

^If built entirely privately funded would be fine. Not good timing to ask for incentive with occupancy still very low along with city stake into convention hotel.

normalthings wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:37 pm

kcjak wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:08 pm Was the Ritz-Carlton considered 5 star when it was here, or just 4 star? And what is preventing a property like The Fontaine from being 5 star? If it's new enough it seems the only thing preventing a 5 star rating are services and amenities.

Speaking of the downtown Marriott Muehlbach, if there's a market for 5 star it seems a no-brainer to spend a few bucks to renovate that structure and put something in there.

The developers seem to think that a new construction 5 star hotel has certain design benefits that can not be met by an existing building

^I don't buy it. KC could start by pursuing upgrading a couple existing to 5-star (with significant floor redesign if necessary) and go from there. Agree that 5-Star is mostly about services/amenities than building design.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:38 pm Why does everyone hate this hotel?

If we were weren’t on the hook financially for the convention center hotel, I’d be all for it. But, putting a nicer hotel right next to our brand new one, causes me to worry about the poaching effect costing the city money.

This was crushed at full council. 11-1 to not approve

^Interesting timing for KCBJ article this morning that points out the poor downtown hotel occupancy...
viewtopic.php?p=628415#p628415

Bad timing to ask for incentives when occupancy terrible and existing City stake in convention hotel.

kboish wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:26 pm This was crushed at full council. 11-1 to not approve

So how will this project ever get done?

^Privately financed.

Bunch put out the KCTIF Watch tweet about Hotel Bravo vote. Also added that it could technically be brought back next week for a re vote

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:20 pm

kboish wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:26 pm This was crushed at full council. 11-1 to not approve

So how will this project ever get done?

It will not happen without incentives.

^And it won't/shouldn't get incentives when downtown occupancy this low and factoring City stake in convention hotel.

earthling wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:36 pm ^And it won't/shouldn't get incentives when downtown occupancy this low and factoring City stake in convention hotel.

I think it would have passed in the absence of COVID.

^Perhaps so if downtown occupancy not so poor but even before COVID downtown was borderline overbuilt (hovering around 60% occupancy before convention hotel) and City had stake in convention hotel.

Pretty hard to get 11 members of this council to agree on anything. This vote was essentially a team-building exercise.

Send this thread to the bottom. It has gotten entirely too much air for such a stupid small project.