KCRag Forum

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:42 pm

alejandro46 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:02 pmi'm very annoyed that MODOT has taken all that BeyondTheLoop worked for and threw it in the shredder.

Is BeyondTheLoop not involved in this?

No. This is an environmental study by MoDOT.

flyingember wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:11 pm So much of the peak use slowdown comes from bad ramp access. For example, removing the backups onto Broadway from I-35 will help as many people go faster as the north loop removal would lead to going slower.

It would encourage more traffic to take 670 to 35 for example.

Related, theres plenty of capacity along Truman. Downtown is designed for traffic in the morning to come from the south so shifting the focus to that direction could work better.

That’s why looking at the total picture is important.

Right, one of the final items highlighted by Beyond the Loop is this spot on I670 where it goes from 3 lanes to 2 lanes then to 1 lane, then back to 3 lanes because of 2 lane exit to I-35, then 1 lane exit to Grand. You can even see chokepoint causing a traffic backup in google maps!

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0961944 ... G-b6_Q!2e0

With relatively modest improvements, our hwy network will be able to handle down-grading north loop with no to minor delays. Remember, there would still be a 4 lane boulevard at that stretch, its not like it's going completely away.

alejandro46 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:04 am
With relatively modest improvements, our hwy network will be able to handle down-grading north loop with no to minor delays. Remember, there would still be a 4 lane boulevard at that stretch, its not like it's going completely away.

Before concluding this what I'd like to see from MODOT are these stats for S Loop...

- Current max capacity deemed for S Loop during rush hours (capacity of number of cars/hr)
- Current S Loop and N Loop typical peak load at rush hours
- Anticipated peak load in 10 years for S Loop if N Loop reduced/removed
- Anticipated peak load in 20 years for S Loop if N Loop reduced/removed

Or whatever capacity management metrics they gather to determine loads.

Is this survey just lip service? I mean nobody is going to pick their trash cheap adjacent option and we know that's what they want to do.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:05 pm Is this survey just lip service? I mean nobody is going to pick their trash cheap adjacent option and we know that's what they want to do.

People absolutely will pick the smallest cost just for the matter of being principled towards spending less.

They're clearly trying to spend less and wanted to throw it in for that reason.

Everyone, I had not seen any discussion concerning this -- figured I'd stick my neck out and start it.

There are four different proposals for the Broadway Extension river crossing. One sticks out: The WEST plan.

The four proposals are delineated here: https://www.modot.org/buck-oneil-enviro ... ic-meeting

Specifically, the one (I believe) this forum will endorse is the West Alternative: https://www.modot.org/sites/default/fil ... tive_0.pdf

This would positively be a game changer for the River Market, where the Broadway Extension bifurcates the neighborhood. It could be an interesting dynamics change; where the sum of the parts are greater than the land relinquished by the extension... That is, the western extreme of River Market would be enhanced by removal of the "concrete moat".

Curious of the opinions here, on this forum....

http://kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19209

Some good conversation in this thread....

Going to need some major rock cutting into the bluff to fit another lane or two for a ramp from northbound 35 directly to new bridge. Existing ramp to 6th is already tight. Will this eat up some of new dog park and remains of West Terrace Park? Not to mention homeless encampments.

I just hope the decision is to not use a blah blah continuous plate bridge.. A postcard quality bridge would frame the waterfront nicely..

Has to be low profile as it will be encroaching on airport flight paths.

moderne wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:34 pm Going to need some major rock cutting into the bluff to fit another lane or two for a ramp from northbound 35 directly to new bridge. Existing ramp to 6th is already tight. Will this eat up some of new dog park and remains of West Terrace Park? Not to mention homeless encampments.

Yeah I hate that. That bluff is beautiful (under all those vines!).

I wish the highway could be pushed off the bluff and fly above the train tracks instead. Restore the bluff and park for hiking etc.

DaveKCMO wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:45 am

TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:42 pm

alejandro46 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:02 pmi'm very annoyed that MODOT has taken all that BeyondTheLoop worked for and threw it in the shredder.

Is BeyondTheLoop not involved in this?

No. This is an environmental study by MoDOT.

I think beyondtheloop is still in this project. The same black and white image of downtown appears in both.

Additionally, the Broadway bridge replacement options and their names are identical between projects.

moderne wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:12 pm Has to be low profile as it will be encroaching on airport flight paths.

The site plan and alignment suggest height should not be a problem.

kenrbnj wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:28 am

moderne wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:12 pm Has to be low profile as it will be encroaching on airport flight paths.

The site plan and alignment suggest height should not be a problem.

I assume it's probably not a real choice since money gets put into specific verticals, but I would much rather spend money on complete streets than iconic highway bridges.

We were promised the Bond bridge would be iconic...it's the same bridge that can be found in countless cities around the country and world.

kcjak wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:03 am We were promised the Bond bridge would be iconic...it's the same bridge that can be found in countless cities around the country and world.

What should have been done differently? Ultimately the bridge has to stand, so surely design options are a bit limited?

There's only a handful of actual bridge designs and everyone uses them over and over.

I bet the Bond Bridge was meant to be unique in KC, not worldwide, and everyone misunderstood that.

I don't think anything can be considered "iconic" if it just looks different than other stuff in a city.