Fear of an Urban Planet...

[BVC]

Lighten up, I was less upset being pulled over for driving the same vehicle as a suspected drunk and wreckless driver, having to submit to roadside alcohol tests.

[trailerkid]

Lighten up, I was less upset being pulled over for driving the same vehicle as a suspected drunk and wreckless driver, having to submit to roadside alcohol tests.

If your ready, willing, able to hand over your civil liberties...that's your business. Just don't expect the same from others.

[chrizow]

again, i think it's just an a-hole cop hassling a young person for "loitering."  this happens all the time, whether the young person is doing anything wrong or not.  it's definitely questionable police tactics, but i don't think it's a commentary on how the LPD views "urbanity." 

[trailerkid]

again, i think it's just an a-hole cop hassling a young person for "loitering."  this happens all the time, whether the young person is doing anything wrong or not.  it's definitely questionable police tactics, but i don't think it's a commentary on how the LPD views "urbanity." 

I don't think I ever made a judgement specifically on the LPD. I have had other encounters with local police and don't have any negative responses to report. However, I am making a judgement on anti-urban and unethical police tactics handily employed by this officer. Many on this board think this type of conduct is fine just because it's common. I may not have placed on enough emphasis on how confrontational and authoritarian this officer seemed. His approach was to "get the bad guy" among 2 guys and a pregnant woman.

[chrizow]

yeah, he sounds like a giant douche. 

when i was in lawrence on saturday, i didn't see a single police car or officer.  i am sure they are around, and maybe my experience was just "lucky," but the police presence in downtown CoMo is extremely visible.  i wonder what the difference is? 

anyway, sorry you got hassled by the police.  did you file a complaint or anything?

[LenexatoKCMO]

It is definitely a fine line.  I am as big of a civil libertarian as they come but at the same time there are plenty of times that I would like to see the KCPD take a little more active interest in some of the shady figures I occasionally see passing through or loitering in my urban neighborhood.  I guess the whole argument boils down to the police officer's right to engage people on the street in a non-custodial interview to determine probable cause.  For better or worse, the USSC has said this is legit.  Sadly, most police departments are designed to take advantage of whatever the laziest standard the USSC can establish, so of course they are going to go the path of least resistance to do their job.  That said, I would still rather have them employing the sketchy, lazy tactics in my urban neighborhood than to have them do nothing at all in my neigborhood; which seems to more often be the case.  

[trailerkid]

yeah, he sounds like a giant douche. 

when i was in lawrence on saturday, i didn't see a single police car or officer.  i am sure they are around, and maybe my experience was just "lucky," but the police presence in downtown CoMo is extremely visible.  i wonder what the difference is? 

anyway, sorry you got hassled by the police.  did you file a complaint or anything?

Yeah...Lawrence is very laid back in terms of police presence which is why this incident really burned me. The whole thing just felt like something that would happen in Bonner.

I didn't file a complaint...thought about it. 

[BVC]

If your ready, willing, able to hand over your civil liberties...that's your business. Just don't expect the same from others.

Well, considering the officer that pulled me over was doing his job and I did not end up in jail without reason, I'm pretty sure that my civil liberties remained intact.  The same sounds like it could be said about you and your friends.  If the officer pulling me over and the one that ran your buddy through the computer were telling the truth, then hats off to them for pursuing a suspect.  If the officers did so simply to fuck with me or fuck with you guys, then we have a problem but it is still a rarity.

[BVC]

I didn't file a complaint...thought about it. 

You should do so if you feel strongly about the situation which it seems like you do.  I filed a complaint back in January about an officer's stupidity in writing me a ticket for being more than 12" away from a curb when I was only 8" away.  THAT, was bullshit and I still refuse to pay the ticket.

[trailerkid]

It is definitely a fine line.  I am as big of a civil libertarian as they come but at the same time there are plenty of times that I would like to see the KCPD take a little more active interest in some of the shady figures I occasionally see passing through or loitering in my urban neighborhood.  I guess the whole argument boils down to the police officer's right to engage people on the street in a non-custodial interview to determine probable cause.

I hate this saying, but no bigger case of apples and oranges in terms of KCPD v. LPD. Lawrence cops have DUIs and assaults at the Sig Ep house while KCPD have...well...KCMo to deal with. Lawrence cops thought the sky was falling when folks from the KCMo/KCK used to party here and steal from convenience stores on the way out.

[BVC]

Lawrence cops thought the sky was falling when folks from the KCMo/KCK used to party here and steal from convenience stores on the way out.

Don't forget about the shootings that the outsiders were also responsible for...

[LenexatoKCMO]

I hate this saying, but no bigger case of apples and oranges in terms of KCPD v. LPD. Lawrence cops have DUIs and assaults at the Sig Ep house while KCPD have...well...KCMo to deal with. Lawrence cops thought the sky was falling when folks from the KCMo/KCK used to party here and steal from convenience stores on the way out.

They may be apples and oranges in terms of cities and PDs but the same constitutional limits apply regardless of whether you are on Mass Ave, Independence Ave, or Metcalf Ave.  Our Supreme Court has given police the power to stop people on the street and briefly detain them in a non-custodial interview without full probable cause.  Right or wrong, that is the standard applied everywhere.  If the KCPD had enough officers and money, I have no doubt that they would be doing the same thing here in the city, and have no doubt that if Overland Park actually had pedestrians, they wouldn't hesitate to use this tactic either. 

[tat2kc]

I went and reread the incident, because I thought perhaps I had missed something in the original post that perhaps gave good cause for this thread to continue for 3 pages. What I read was that a cop saw 3 people downtown that were unfamiliar. One of the people matched a description of someone suspected in a violent assault. The police officer checked the ID of the person who resembled the suspect. 

What is the problem? You were not detained, and you were not hassled.  What should the police do when they see someone who looks like a suspected violent criminal? Blow it off? I would be happy if the cops here in KC questioned even one person who looked like the man who assaulted me in Westport. They haven't done anything at all, and I don't expect them to.  Is the cop supposed to know the identity of each and every person on the street so that he can definiviely say: Thats Joe Blow, he lives at 801 Mass, so I know for a fact he is not the one we're looking for.  How is he supposed to know who you are if he doesn't ask?

He asked for identification and he told you why he was asking. That is not harrassment. That is a cop doing his job.  Call the paper when you are face down on the sidewalk, handcuffed, with no explanation. Then you might have a case for harrassment. 

[Highlander]

I went and reread the incident, because I thought perhaps I had missed something in the original post that perhaps gave good cause for this thread to continue for 3 pages. What I read was that a cop saw 3 people downtown that were unfamiliar. One of the people matched a description of someone suspected in a violent assault. The police officer checked the ID of the person who resembled the suspect. 

What is the problem? You were not detained, and you were not hassled.  What should the police do when they see someone who looks like a suspected violent criminal? Blow it off? I would be happy if the cops here in KC questioned even one person who looked like the man who assaulted me in Westport. They haven't done anything at all, and I don't expect them to.  Is the cop supposed to know the identity of each and every person on the street so that he can definiviely say: Thats Joe Blow, he lives at 801 Mass, so I know for a fact he is not the one we're looking for.  How is he supposed to know who you are if he doesn't ask?

He asked for identification and he told you why he was asking. That is not harrassment. That is a cop doing his job.  Call the paper when you are face down on the sidewalk, handcuffed, with no explanation. Then you might have a case for harrassment. 

Yep, I would hate to be a cop.  Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.  A lot of stress and very little pay. 

[aknowledgeableperson]

Sorry...not going to take on a part time job trying to befriend cops so they won't harass me without cause. What century are you in? There are probably hundreds of officers in the LPD. The chances of me befriending a cop on Mass Street and seeing him again are quite insignificant.

The assumption made by the cop was that anyone waiting on a city sidewalk was "up to something." He followed his ridiculous "lead" and it went nowhere fast. His puny suburban imagination couldn't fathom I actually lived there...proved true when he sat in his car and waited for me to unlock the door. He jumped out when I got the door unlocked and assured us that everything checked out "on the computer." No shit? 

You do not have to be friends with every single cop but most cops do work a beat.  If you becomes friends with them then they will become your friends.
Policemen are humans, just like you.  Give an attitude to them and they will return it more ofter than not.
Did you try to be friendly with him when he approached you "I just moved into this place today and these are my friends and we are just waiting for the pizza man - hey, we ordered the pizza from ______, are they any good?"  Or was it "Why are you hassling us?  We just standing here and minding our own business so go fight some crime someplace else"

[trailerkid]

I went and reread the incident, because I thought perhaps I had missed something in the original post that perhaps gave good cause for this thread to continue for 3 pages. What I read was that a cop saw 3 people downtown that were unfamiliar. One of the people matched a description of someone suspected in a violent assault. The police officer checked the ID of the person who resembled the suspect. 

What is the problem? You were not detained, and you were not hassled. 

1. Anyone who is "unfamiliar" in downtown L is 99.9% of the population. Maybe people like Dan Simmons or Bill Self or Danny Manning aren't. That's like seeing someone on the Plaza who is unfamiliar and stopping them for questioning.

2. The story told by the cop was made up. He initially told us that it was robberies (nothing in the small time rag about downtown robberies) and then switched his story that it was some ridiculous assault (nothing in the small time rag about a guy beating up a guy and and his girlfriend downtown). On top of this, the name of the suspect conincidentally rhymed with my friend's name. Bob Gifford...Rob Frifford...he needs to take his act back to Blue Springs or Olathe or wherever.

3. If this thread is so unworthy...why do you and others insist on lengthening it? We have duplicate threads, non-topical threads, blabbering, thread hijacks all over the downtown board if your concern is forum integrity.

[KC0KEK]

I'm still wondering why this thread was started in the first place.

[trailerkid]

I'm still wondering why this thread was started in the first place.

Strict suburban ethos applied to law enforcement position in urban zones = destruction of urban fabric. Healthy urban areas should have people watching/waiting/recreating around their dwellings. Whether his intention was to discourage pedestrian animation or not isn't the point. He sent a strong psychological message (by confronting us and attempting to hold us for no reason) that there is something wrong with me gathering with friends outside of my dwelling.

Is that clear?

[KC0KEK]

To quote chrizow at the beginning of this thread, "I don't see anything 'suburban' about this incident." It's all in your head. Get over it.

[trailerkid]

To quote chrizow at the beginning of this thread, "I don't see anything 'suburban' about this incident." It's all in your head. Get over it.

That's what I mean by psychological messages sent by this officer. I'm sure this is not the first time he's confronted someone without cause downtown. He is discouraging pedestiran animation after dark by his confrontational tactics. Realistically, pedestrian animation after dark will reduce crime downtown. If he suceeds in getting everyone off the sidewalks after dark, he is making downtown more dangerous.