KCRag Forum

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:26 pm**

For better or worse, the city is building a surface parking lot on the former gas station site.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:45 pm**

Pastense wrote: For better or worse, the city is building a surface parking lot on the former gas station site.

I was going to make a smart-aleck prediction to that affect.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:22 pm**

leaf wrote: yeah it would be awesome if 18th and Vine had a ton of free/cheap jazz going on during First Friday. if they do, and i am not aware of it, feel free to flog me, but first friday is a great opportunity to get a couple hundred people to amble over to the 18th and Vine area. perhaps even First Friday after-party/events with jazz, etc.

The Peachtree almost always has "free" live music, Ida McBeth plays at the Blue Room almost every 1st Friday for a mere $10, and the Red Vine used to have free live jazz every night. Yeah, it'd be cool to have even more places do it, but that's a nice group there. It'd be awesome if we could fix the about 10 blocks between the Paseo and Grinders and get that to be a great streetscape for people to walk between the two. It'll take some time, but I think it's moving toward my little pipe dream...

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:31 pm**

i completely agree with you. i could see it happening naturally over the next five years, but the real disconnect will be between harrison/troost and paseo.
everything there is industrial and open space - the fabric melts away and we are left with the KCATA and other lots and industrial buildings, a result of "urban renewal" of the 1950s when neighborhoods were torn down and emminent domained and given to industrial and public uses.

it would be nice to bring it back, to reclaim it.

Posted: **Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:58 am**

voltopt wrote: i completely agree with you. i could see it happening naturally over the next five years, but the real disconnect will be between harrison/troost and paseo.
everything there is industrial and open space - the fabric melts away and we are left with the KCATA and other lots and industrial buildings, a result of "urban renewal" of the 1950s when neighborhoods were torn down and emminent domained and given to industrial and public uses.

it would be nice to bring it back, to reclaim it.

However, I think one of the first steps is to make 18th and Vine a more vibrant neighborhood worthy of connecting. Like I said before, it seem like a museum complex with a couple restaurants. Add 950% more retailers as well as more residential density. It is far too sleepy of an area IMO...

Posted: **Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:54 am**

We need some more philanthropic institutions to get involved with 18th and Vine. It's too black vs white mentality. Until people recognize that 18th and Vine is part of Kansas City history, the area will have problems. Something should be tied into the area remembering Municipal Stadium. Most people have a connection to the memories of going to the ballpark. How about a bar/restaurant dedicated to the Royals/Monarchs in the early days. Connect the area to the current Royals team. Possible destination before and after the games at Kauffman.

Posted: **Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:47 am**

trailerkid wrote: However, I think one of the first steps is to make 18th and Vine a more vibrant neighborhood worthy of connecting. Like I said before, it seem like a museum complex with a couple restaurants. Add 950% more retailers as well as more residential density. It is far too sleepy of an area IMO...

i agree with you, however i believe they are on the right track. there is more residential under construction right now, and with a cross connection things can only grow. the peachtree is always packed, and the foundation is hopping on the weekends. its a worthy area that has more invested in it then 18th and oak - the whole corridor could be amazing from broadway to brooklyn...

Posted: **Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:52 am**

I would love to see a restaurant down in that area (or in the P&L district) that was similar to a planet hollywood but completely dedicated to the legends of KC Jazz. I know the Blue Room has this, but making it more of a full-serve restuarant would open it up to a wider audience in my opinion. If it were done in the P&L district, this would open people up to wanting to go down to the 18th & Vine area more.

I think one of the biggest problems with the 18th & Vine area is the perception of it as being unsafe by white people from the suburbs. My wife and I go down the the Peach Tree (and the Red Vine before it closed) pretty regularly and have NEVER had even one once of trouble, or weird stare or anything. We love going down there because it's one of the few places you can go in the city with a wonderful mix of young and old and black and white.

Posted: **Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:54 am**

voltopt wrote: its a worthy area that has more invested in it then 18th and oak - the whole corridor could be amazing from broadway to brooklyn...

I'm very excited about what Ollie Gates says he's planning north of that area around 9th and Paseo -- improving that area (closer to downtown) will have a halo effect to the 18th & Vine area as well.

Posted: **Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:48 pm**

midtown guy wrote: I would love to see a restaurant down in that area (or in the P&L district) that was similar to a planet hollywood but completely dedicated to the legends of KC Jazz. I know the Blue Room has this, but making it more of a full-serve restuarant would open it up to a wider audience in my opinion. If it were done in the P&L district, this would open people up to wanting to go down to the 18th & Vine area more.

I think one of the biggest problems with the 18th & Vine area is the perception of it as being unsafe by white people from the suburbs. My wife and I go down the the Peach Tree (and the Red Vine before it closed) pretty regularly and have NEVER had even one once of trouble, or weird stare or anything. We love going down there because it's one of the few places you can go in the city with a wonderful mix of young and old and black and white.

It's the areas a couple blocks away from 18th and Vine that white people are afraid of. 18th and Vine is clean and attractive to suburbanites.

I think there is enough gimmicky stuff in 18th and Vine already without a theme restaurant. Why not start to concentrate on present day culture and neighorhood retail? Make 18th and Vine a real neighborhood.

Posted: **Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:17 pm**

trailerkid wrote: It's the areas a couple blocks away from 18th and Vine that white people are afraid of.

i'm pretty sure persons of all lineages are somewhat "afraid" of the area within a few blocks of the 18th and Vine district. like it or not, some of kansas city's most impovershed and violent neighborhoods (and public housing complexes) are very, very close to this area. this fact does not mean that 18th and Vine cannot succeed or should not succeed, of course, but it is certainly a highly relevant factor in the district's appeal.

Posted: **Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:12 pm**

I think it's sad that we have the most historic jazz district in the country right under our noses and it doesn't get utilized by more people.....AND we aren't investing enough money in it right now. I like the earlier comment about how it needs to become its own thriving neighborhood with REAL shops and restaurants.....not as many themed places. I go down there all the time to the Mutual Musicians Foundation and never feel afraid for my safety. People need to overcome the stigma attached to that area and realize that they're not going to get mugged when they go to 18th and Vine. I sure hope that when the Crossroads and P&L Dist. get even bigger, that it will spill over into that area and pick it up a bit.

Posted: **Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:20 am**

leaf wrote:like it or not, some of kansas city's most impovershed and violent neighborhoods (and public housing complexes) are very, very close to this area. this fact does not mean that 18th and Vine cannot succeed or should not succeed, of course, but it is certainly a highly relevant factor in the district's appeal.

I've never got this feeling...I always thought the neighborhoods with more criminal activity were further south and further east. There are so few actual homes from the Paseo to even Brooklyn (between say... 12th and 20th) that I just don't see this area as nearly as dangerous as even parts of Midtown. I can see it in Old NE, but the Paseo West area is just a ghost town-- usually no one outside to commit crimes.

Posted: **Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:53 am**

that ghost town feel can be pretty scary, It's like no one can hear you screaming

Posted: **Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:15 pm**

trailerkid wrote: I've never got this feeling...I always thought the neighborhoods with more criminal activity were further south and further east. There are so few actual homes from the Paseo to even Brooklyn (between say... 12th and 20th) that I just don't see this area as nearly as dangerous as even parts of Midtown. I can see it in Old NE, but the Paseo West area is just a ghost town-- usually no one outside to commit crimes.

i find that what there lacks in pedestrian activity it makes up in dudes driving through in beat up cars..... ever so slowly.

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:15 pm**

This could help!

It's official: Kansas City's tribute to Negro Leagues baseball is now America's National Negro Leagues Baseball Museum.

http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/new ... etail.html

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:47 am**

KCLover wrote: This could help!

It's official: Kansas City's tribute to Negro Leagues baseball is now America's National Negro Leagues Baseball Museum.

http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/new ... etail.html

The neighborhood needs to transcend being a "museum complex" in order to succeed. Give us more retail storefronts. Give us midrise mixed use projects that spit in the face of the low density townhomes/projects that have risen in this area over the last 50 years. Give us a grand and imposing urban vision for the future!

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:17 pm**

i don't think it's going to happen (atleast in the near future), mostly because 18/Vine's future is in the hands of a a select number of middle/senior aged middle class African Americans who have their own vision of what 18/Vine should be (which seems to want to dissociate itself with any part of African American culture that might have developed after 1979). Not only that, revitalizing many of the buildings in the area is so costly, that it requires new leasees to pay huge rents (to cover the costs of the new space), which basically narrows down who can go into the spaces (and the few who can afford it struggle to keep going because of this huge cost).

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:22 pm**

That's why 18th and Vine needs to reach and associate itself with the east Crossroads and work together for both districts.

Posted: **Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:01 pm**

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