Any hope for future KC LRT?

[tat2kc]

welcome Shaffe! good to see another new face.

[ComandanteCero]

shaffe that sounds very convenient for northlanders and tourists, but hey if you all can foot that bill, go for it

[shaffe]

i know that my idea really discludes joco, and i think that with that initlal L to start, the joco line would connect. the more i rack my brain i'm pretty sure a joco line was an addition around the time the light rail thing was on the ballot. i'm not trying to be the "typical northlander" here, if we can get a peace syblol thing going with one side going east to BS and another going southwest to 135th and i-35 that would be ideal probably. if the gov't is going to help out, then why don't we take advantage of that. build two way lines designed to carry big amounts of people and then in phase two branch off with smaller lines and a revamp of the bus system, and of course trolley lines all through downtown from union station.

[dangerboy]

Shaffe, the reason that all the plans pick the Downtown to Plaza route for the first phase is because it's the densest part of the city and already has the highest bus usage.

The plan that stopped at Vivion Road was a compromise for the benefit of the Northlanders. Going all the way to the airport was just to expensive to do in the first phase, so we said we'll go as far as Vivion and get the airport in phase 2. Unfortuntely y'all up there didn't like that either.

[shaffe]

i think what people up here didn't like was that they said it was too expensive to do it because of the mileage. telling me that you can't go to the airport, but can cover the same amount of track going elsewhere (besides the plaza) just doesn't fly personally. i wouldn't have voted for that plan no matter where i lived. would you think that the airport would be an important thing to incorporate from the start?

[ComandanteCero]

no doubt, i'm not worried about Joco getting light rail just now (although if the commuter line doesn't work an I-35 LRT route could probably work). The only part of town that is the most likely to be able to make light rail work (and probably benefit the most) would be the RCP. I'd be for a 5 mile starter line that went right down the RCP corridor and then worry about expanding the line upwards, downwards and sideways in later phases.

[ComandanteCero]

i think the airport would be an important part in any LRT system. But you have to consider that the airport is about 20 miles from downtown KC. (for comparison, St. Louis' airport is around 15 miles away from downtown, but also has many of the important tourist and population stops along that 15 mile route, while KC would have 20 miles from downtown to the airport without hitting any of the big attractions/population centers other than the Northland). It's one of those obstacles the region faces with being so sprawled out.

[dangerboy]

Including the airport is important, but not for the first phase. You absolutely have to do the urban core first. That's where most of the riders are, and most of the destinations. Going just from Downtown to KCI wouldn't attract enough riders support the huge investment needed or a 20 mile route.

A 5 mile starter route is a much more managable and responsible. We can start there and make sure it's successful before committing to the huge 20 mile airport route.

This shouldn't be about north vs. south but about starting where it makes most sense. The Northland wouldn't have been neglected, the airport was absolutely the next priority after the urban core. People in south and southeast wouldn't have had light rail in the first phase either, but they voted for it anyway.

[cdschofield]

I think the whole LRT plan got hijacked by politicians and special interests instead of putting together the most sensible plan, Waldo to KCI, which I think was KCATA's original plan, instead of these routes snaking through the east side. The interesting thing is that the east side routes were put in to appease Freedom, Inc. et al and the Plaza to Waldo route was nixed to pay for the east side additions. After the vote, the east side districts voted against LRT and the Brookside districts who lost their route voted for LRT. To this day I believe it would have passed if the first phase of LRT was Waldo to River Market with a built in financing mechanism that would kick in later for a phase 2 from River Market to KCI.

[shaffe]

*shrug*, is the plaza that far south (75th street)? i think it is but i've never really paid attention when i drive down there. i guess my idea that connecting your biggest travel hub to the rest of the city should be something that needs to be in there from the start just wouldn't fly. even if it's not easy to do, i feel that it's a necessity. you're going to have to foot the bill for it sooner or later, it's not like KCI is going anywhere (unlike the TSC might be).

and with that i'll leave my opinions to die, unless i get requests for an encore.

[KCK]

*shrug*, is the plaza that far south (75th street)? i think it is but i've never really paid attention when i drive down there. i guess my idea that connecting your biggest travel hub to the rest of the city should be something that needs to be in there from the start just wouldn't fly. even if it's not easy to do, i feel that it's a necessity. you're going to have to foot the bill for it sooner or later, it's not like KCI is going anywhere (unlike the TSC might be).

and with that i'll leave my opinions to die, unless i get requests for an encore.

I always thought the Plaza was around 40-50th streets. Maybe I'm wrong.

[shinatoo]

Plaza is at 47th, or just west of where it says "Volker" on this map

[shaffe]

so is all that track south of the plaza the waldo area? why was it necessary to go there?

forgive me, i don't know south kc very well at all.

[cdschofield]

It's the Trolley Track Trail now. It is probably the only surviving ATA owned track easement left in the city. There is still an original trolley stop in Crestwood, a bridge over Edgevale Rd. and visible tracks crossing 63rd St. I think the ATA figured it would probably be the cheapest and easiest part of the whole LRT system to build since all the easements, utilities and grading is done.

Also the neighborhoods along that route were built oriented to the trolley route. From the Plaza to Waldo there is a shopping district about every 10 blocks along the old trolley line. This is why I don't understand why the region can't at least plan for LRT thereby giving developers and cities a way to plan for easements and developments. Wouldn't it have been nice for Zona Rosa to be able to build around an easement for the eventual LRT line headed to KCI? What about the novel idea of building the new Paseo bridge(s) with room for LRT? Instead everyone wants to drone on how it's too expensive, KC loves it's cars, nobody will ride it, traffic isn't that bad yet, blah, blah, blah...The Smartmoves plan was a start but it was much too timid. The BRT routes outlined would make very logical LRT routes. But they will only suggest unofficially that someday these BRT routes could be changed to LRT routes. Why not just work on getting the cities to start planning for LRT while starting BRT lines? Require new developments along these routes to make neccessary allowances and easements. When utilities are replacing or installing lines let them know they should just move them to accomodate the future LRT line. I think Charlotte's transportation plan is the best example of what I'm talking about. They have grand plans that will take awhile and yet to be fully funded but at least they have a plan that everyone can go by when making development decisions.

[eliphar17]

The Plaza is literally just to the left of "ROW" on the map. The dotted line running south from there is the Trolley Track Trail going south to Waldo. I assume the "East Side" refers to the area that Bruce R. Watkins runs through.

[Thrillcekr]

KC is still too small. We only have a couple areas where traffic gets backed up really bad. We need about a half million more people or so before some form of light rail will be neccessary. Once again I'll stick in my plug for magnetic levitation trains when that comes. Magnet trains are lighter, faster, quieter, more comfortable, more efficient, lower maintenance, they can be built more quickly, and they are friendlier to the environment. The only disadvantage is that it costs mre initially to build. By the time we are ready for one though, I'm sure the cost will have fallen considerably because competition, more efficient manufacturing, and increased sales.

Magnetic levitation train info:

http://www.o-keating.com/hsr/maglev.htm

http://www.didyouknow.cd/whatsnew/trains.htm

http://www.bwmaglev.com/

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... rt-web-top

[staubio]

This is the future. It has been mentioned here before:

http://www.skytran.net/

[Thrillcekr]

This is the future. It has been mentioned here before:

http://www.skytran.net/

Heh. That's pretty cool. However, I'll be a little skeptical of that until I see it actually working somewhere. The magnetic levitation trains are already more than just a concept.

[staubio]

This is the future. It has been mentioned here before:

http://www.skytran.net/

Heh. That's pretty cool. However, I'll be a little skeptical of that until I see it actually working somewhere. The magnetic levitation trains are already more than just a concept.

It makes sense to me. I think people's continued inward focus will make something that allows people more autonomy be more adopted. I like the idea of shared modes of transportation and the density of fixed lines and limited destinations, but I could see Skytran working in KC today.

[Thrillcekr]

This is the future. It has been mentioned here before:

http://www.skytran.net/

Heh. That's pretty cool. However, I'll be a little skeptical of that until I see it actually working somewhere. The magnetic levitation trains are already more than just a concept.

It makes sense to me. I think people's continued inward focus will make something that allows people more autonomy be more adopted. I like the idea of shared modes of transportation and the density of fixed lines and limited destinations, but I could see Skytran working in KC today.

Yeah, but the reason I remain skeptical is because I work with engineers everyday. Their plan always looks great on paper and then after they get the thing built they find a slight miscalculation here and a small oversight there. Next thing ya know the whole thing just turns out to be a big, useless lump of shit. It doesn't always turn out that way it happens often enough to make me leary at first. KC is small enough that losing on a gamble like that could really hurt us bad. That's why I say I'd rather see somebody else try that out first. Let someone else work the bugs out of it.