Who should design the new arena?

Post by **chrizow** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:37 pm

very good points, highlander.

MidtownCat · Post by **MidtownCat** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:42 pm

It's all matter of personal preference.

Gehry's buildings ARE radical. They continually push the boundaries of form and material. They're unique, otherworldly and yes they're controversial.

And so was Sarrinen's Arch in St. Louis, and the Sydney Opera House, the Space Needle, the Eiffel Tower, The Louvre, and on and on. We're talking about icons that symbolize a city.

If you want safety and normalcy, go with HOK. They'll give you a damn nice arena, just like they have in countless other American cities and that's fine.

You want a building that will bring world wide attention to Kansas City, media, tourism and the opportunity to literally transform the image of a city because of its presence you take a chance and you choose Gehry.

Post by **chrizow** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:44 pm

i agree midtown cat.

it's actually unfortunate in a way that Gehry wants to do our arena. i would be ok with HOK doing it and Gehry doing something else in the city - a museum or office/research/something building. i admit it is a tough choice when the "hometown team" is the #1 sports architecture firm. but it's also hard to ignore genius, which Gehry is. and, like i have said before, he is getting pretty old. it would be great to "get one in" before the guy croaks.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:55 pm

don't forget we are getting a worldwide eyecatcher already with the PAC. Not that I would mind TWO eye catching designs....that would really turn heads.

Imagine, I.M. Pei, Steven Holl, Moshe Sadfie, and Frank Gehry all at the same time doing a building in KC....that's freaking amazing for ANY city in this country. (Oh I probably butchered the spellings on those names)

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:16 pm

KCPowercat wrote:don't forget we are getting a worldwide eyecatcher already with the PAC. Not that I would mind TWO eye catching designs....that would really turn heads.

Imagine, I.M. Pei, Steven Holl, Moshe Sadfie, and Frank Gehry all at the same time doing a building in KC....that's freaking amazing for ANY city in this country. (Oh I probably butchered the spellings on those names)

Don't forget that the West Edge Project will also feature a starchitect.

Post by **chrizow** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:18 pm

what starchitect? i either forgot or never knew....

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:27 pm

chrizow wrote:what starchitect? i either forgot or never knew....

There are a bunch in the running...still a pretty big list, but Bernstein promised this project would be something that leaves his mark on the Plaza.

Here is the list of architects that the Bernsteins and Braswells are meeting with:
Antoine Predock, an Albuquerque, N.M., architect who recently co-designed a downtown ballpark for the San Diego Padres;
William McDonough, a Charlottesville, Va., architect known for his green architecture;
Carlos Zapata of New York, designer of the new Soldier Field in Chicago;
I.M. Pei of New York, the designer of the glass pyramid entrance to the Louvre in Paris;
Bernard Tschumi of New York, designer of a new student center at Columbia University in New York;
Kohn Pedersen Fox of New York, designer of the new HBO headquarters in Manhattan;
Moule & Polyzoides, Pasadena, Calif., designer of the Long Beach Civic Center;
the Urban Future Organization in London;
Hadid, whose new Contemporary Art Museum in Cincinnati has wowed critics;
Cesar Pelli, New Haven, Conn., designer of the Wells Fargo Center in Minneapolis;
Phillipe Starck, Paris,
Moshi Safdie, the Jerusalem-based designer of the proposed performing arts center in Kansas City
Local architects being interviewed are Raphael Garcia, Steve Abend and Elizabeth Amirahmadi.

Post by **chrizow** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:33 pm

awesome. KC needs more forward-thinking modern architecture.

the arena should be part of that. thus, i hope HOK steps it up a few notches. it should stand side-by-side with the PAC and the Nelson, not side-by-side with the Staples Center (which looks like a giant circuit city, heheh).

MidtownCat · Post by **MidtownCat** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:39 pm

I've actually had some involvement in this project. Here's what I know. The Berstein's want a building designed by a world renowned architect to stand as their lasting legacy on the Plaza.

Renzo Piano was courted but refused the project because his office is simply overloaded with work. Herzog & DeMueron were also approached but refused as well. Zaha Hadid was actually interviewed.

Here's who I know to be at the top of list:

Moshie Safdie: I'm perplexed by this, but whatever.

Bernard Tshumi

Antoine Predock

Caesar Pelli

Gould Evans will get the local architect duties.

I pushed hard for Alvaro Siza of Portugal, but it was extremeley difficult to make contact.

At this point I'm hoping for Predock or Tschumi.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:40 pm

I'm an achitectural idiot...I've only heard of Pelli.

MidtownCat · Post by **MidtownCat** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:57 pm

Predock does some pretty amazing work, most of it is based in the Southwest. It's very sculptural and monolithic.

http://www.predock.com/home.html

Tschumi for many years was a theoretician best known for one build work in Paris, Park La Villete and for his books The Event City. He also taught at Harvard. Recently he's won a couple of commissions. It's a pretty wild choice, but he's certainly talented.

http://www.tschumi.com/tsch_hold.asp

I don't know how either of them will translate with a 12 story mixed use high rise building.

I won't be surprised if the go with Pelli in the end. You're getting a name but your working with a huge corporation, basically what I.M Pei is now as well.

I wanted Renzo Piano http://194.185.232.3/ badly for this one, but the guy is swamped with about 2O active projects including the tallest building in Europe. Must be rough.

Caycee · Post by **Caycee** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:39 pm

Lets keep it in the family. Dream Team baby!

ComandanteCero · Post by **ComandanteCero** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:10 pm

what family would that be.............?

Caycee · Post by **Caycee** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:15 pm

ComandanteCero wrote:what family would that be.............?

The Kansas City family, of course.

ComandanteCero · Post by **ComandanteCero** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:34 pm

Caycee wrote:
ComandanteCero wrote:what family would that be.............?
The Kansas City family, of course.

hehe, I wish that "family" could unite behind more meaningful issues for the region than the equally competent design alternatives of a building.... the more i think about it the only thing that can get the bi-state counties united is making fake "out of towner" threats. So let's get a St. Louis company to violently oppose building a stadium downtown, to oppose light rail plans, changing zoning laws, and just about every other issue you might need a majority on....

Caycee · Post by **Caycee** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:36 pm

That did seem to work. Let's get right on it!

destro65 · Post by **destro65** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:06 pm

I voted for Frank Gehry because I've actually visited one of the buildings that he designed. The Experience Music Project in Seattle. I find that his use of curved metal exteriors just sets his buildings apart from anybody else. His design would make people say "Wow!" and give Kansas City another architectural wonder.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:03 pm

I don't want an arena that looks like a traditonal arena. Inside needs to be functional and adaptable, so that future needs and desires of patrons can be accomodated. The outside, though, needs to be something completely different from what has come in the past. Gehrey can sure do that, and his participation in the competition will force the "dream team" to move beyond what they've done in the past. Sure, their designs have evolved over the years, but its been a gradual change. You can almost line up their arenas by time line and see the evolution, and make an educated guess where they would go nest, design-wise. Our design needs to change that evolution. People should see it and say: Wow! that is not what I was expecting." I do not want a safe, bland, "blend in" space. It is not the designer that is important, it is the design.

I want a design that will make people pull over, get out of the car, and say: Holy sh*t! Take pictures, explore, feel invited from the outside, and welcomed on the inside.

FangKC · Post by **FangKC** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:05 pm

MidtownCat wrote:Predock does some pretty amazing work, most of it is based in the Southwest. It's very sculptural and monolithic.

http://www.predock.com/home.html

Predock's designs appear to be regional in that they work better in a southwestern setting. A lot of that has to do with the southwest being much more an environment of shapes, angles, light, and shadow. I didn't see anything that would appear to "fit" in the Plaza in Kansas City.

However, I do like the Atlantis Casino design. It is probably his most inspired. It is actually very cool in its execution, and looks almost like a movie set. A modern version of a Fritz Lang's Metropolis, but with more of a space-age flair. I also liked the project in Morocco, and the design at Arizona State University.

MidtownCat · Post by **MidtownCat** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:31 pm

Those are my same reservations as well, Fang. He typically works in the desert with expansive, open sites. His buildings are generally horizontal and opaque with strategically placed apertures for light. They're quite beautiful but I wonder how his work will translate to the office high rise building type, with repetitive elements and a restrictive urban site.

I'm just not a big fan of either Safdie or Pelli. Pelli is a huge corporation and they're all about big, overblown post modern towers and airports these days.

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