KCRag Forum

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:10 pm**

An article in the Kansas City business journal has more details.

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... tower.html

Looks like the St. Louis company is proposing two towers one of which is 30 stories tall.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:10 pm**

Development plans are in the attachments section on this permit.

KCDowntown

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:22 pm**

Wow. That's some density.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:07 pm**

Here are some images

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:09 pm**

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:31 am I’m thinking this will be 16-20 floors. Hopefully it’s a good design.

Boy was I wrong. Lol.

This seems overly large and intimidating. I'm surprised that they plan to build right up to the Power and Light Building and the Crowne Plaza.

Ground floor activation is pretty good. But this building needs two things:
1. It needs to be broken up some. Right now, this thing is a wall.
2. It needs a crown of some sort. Its prominence on then skyline (at 384ft) will make it very noticeable, especially from the west. It can't just be a dark mass on the skyline at night.

Please, I hope to God that the glass does not match 1 and 2 Light, Loews and 1400 Baltimore. We need different color class and doing a blue glass would be depressing.

Hopefully better images come out soon. My past criticisms of LuxLiving aside, this one needs to happen with some tweaks. Getting rid of that parking lot will be extremely beneficial and 300+ more residents downtown will be great. I also hope that this means Lux will build something of high-quality that residents aren't complaining about shortly after it opens because of maintenance issues.

Now the question becomes whether or not an incentive will be requested and, if so, what kind.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:11 pm**

The article mentions that they also submitted an accompanying traffic study that showed buildings at 10 and 20 stories as a possibility. Knowing KC, im sure thats where it ends up.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:26 pm**

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:09 pm
Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:31 am I’m thinking this will be 16-20 floors. Hopefully it’s a good design.
Boy was I wrong. Lol.

This seems overly large and intimidating. I'm surprised that they plan to build right up to the Power and Light Building and the Crowne Plaza.

Ground floor activation is pretty good. But this building needs two things:
1. It needs to be broken up some. Right now, this thing is a wall.
2. It needs a crown of some sort. Its prominence on then skyline (at 384ft) will make it very noticeable, especially from the west. It can't just be a dark mass on the skyline at night.

Please, I hope to God that the glass does not match 1 and 2 Light, Loews and 1400 Baltimore. We need different color class and doing a blue glass would be depressing.

Hopefully better images come out soon. My past criticisms of LuxLiving aside, this one needs to happen with some tweaks. Getting rid of that parking lot will be extremely beneficial and 300+ more residents downtown will be great. I also hope that this means Lux will build something of high-quality that residents aren't complaining about shortly after it opens because of maintenance issues.

Now the question becomes whether or not an incentive will be requested and, if so, what kind.

Agree with everything you said. I was thinking all the same things. The massing is a bit overpowering and I wish it was more a more visually appealing two separate buildings from the ground up. I guessing this has to do with the big garage the towers are sitting on.

I don't have a problem with it going up against the P&L building but hopefully the architectural detail will look better in future renderings.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:27 pm**

kboish wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:11 pm The article mentions that they also submitted an accompanying traffic study that showed buildings at 10 and 20 stories as a possibility. Knowing KC, im sure thats where it ends up.

Yeah but that's fine. Just getting that infill with ground floor activation and pedestrian activity from a hotel would be awesome.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:36 pm**

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:09 pm
1. It needs to be broken up some. Right now, this thing is a wall.
2. It needs a crown of some sort. Its prominence on then skyline (at 384ft) will make it very noticeable, especially from the west. It can't just be a dark mass on the skyline at night.

Disagree with those points.

1. I would argue that it is broken up visually. It is not a giant, flat curtain wall system. There is some undulation and different scales throughout with the exposed structure or 'fins' and whatnot.
2. No crown is better. Don't distract or try to complete with the literal 'crown' jewel next door.

It looks like a perfect project for the site and I hope it's smooth sailing but we all know that won't be the case.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:39 pm**

Critical_Mass wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:36 pm
Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:09 pm
1. It needs to be broken up some. Right now, this thing is a wall.
2. It needs a crown of some sort. Its prominence on then skyline (at 384ft) will make it very noticeable, especially from the west. It can't just be a dark mass on the skyline at night.

Disagree with those points.

1. I would argue that it is broken up visually. It is not a giant, flat curtain wall system. There is some undulation and different scales throughout with the exposed structure or 'fins' and whatnot.
2. No crown is better. Don't distract or try to complete with the literal 'crown' jewel next door.

It looks like a perfect project for the site and I hope it's smooth sailing but we all know that won't be the case.

I understand that it's not a simple flat facade, but the western elevation is too wall like and really needs to be addressed. From a distance, it will look like a big mass. Needs to be tweaked a bit, maybe stepped if possible as it reaches the top.

True about the crown. At very least, a light strip around the top.

At this point, I'm not opposed to it but I'm also not for it. I intend to just let the process play out.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:41 pm**

I'm never going to say no to this much building but it makes me uncomfortable how it pushes in on one of KC's bust buildings. Maybe some equal setbacks as it goes up? Yeah no "crown", I do appreciate how they didn't venture high enough to block that piece of P&L

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:45 pm**

TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:27 pm
kboish wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:11 pm The article mentions that they also submitted an accompanying traffic study that showed buildings at 10 and 20 stories as a possibility. Knowing KC, im sure thats where it ends up.
Yeah but that's fine. Just getting that infill with ground floor activation and pedestrian activity from a hotel would be awesome.

Agreed. Not necessarily a bad thing

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:53 pm**

Critical_Mass wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:36 pm
Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:09 pm
1. It needs to be broken up some. Right now, this thing is a wall.
2. It needs a crown of some sort. Its prominence on then skyline (at 384ft) will make it very noticeable, especially from the west. It can't just be a dark mass on the skyline at night.

Disagree with those points.

1. I would argue that it is broken up visually. It is not a giant, flat curtain wall system. There is some undulation and different scales throughout with the exposed structure or 'fins' and whatnot.
2. No crown is better. Don't distract or try to complete with the literal 'crown' jewel next door.

It looks like a perfect project for the site and I hope it's smooth sailing but we all know that won't be the case.

I tend to agree. I like this overall. The massing might not be as overpowering now that I look at it again. It looks like the towers are pretty independent above the height of the Municipal Auditorium so the massing of the entire development may be fine. Just need better renderings.

Really wish KC could get some new construction like this east of Grand though. Downtown KC east of Grand is really bad and needs new towers desperately so that it looks like something has changed (besides demo) over there post 1930.

Posted: **Wed Mar 01, 2023 12:53 am**

The south side is much worse than the Ron Jury proposal to transorm the P&L blding into a conventions hotel with a new guest tower to the west(prior to the Hyatt/Loews site decision). My biggest esthetic concern is its height on the west, the lantern on top of P&L will only be able to be seen from many blocks to the west. Would like it to still be visible at BAP as the companion to the Muni Aud and Bartle Pylons in setting that opulent Deco/Moderne place making that visitors love. Cut down height by 8 or 10 floors.
It appears to be physically attached to the P&L Bldng. Is this so and will they merge into on giant complex.

Posted: **Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:00 am**

‪Love it. Covers up the ‬blank wall of the p&l building and even gives a visual nod to the 1400 KC building across the street. Also does it all in a way that still lets the KCP&L building shine. Count me in with the no crown crowd.

That said - weird seeing y’all ask for this to be shorter. This is in the middle of downtown. We should be building as tall as we can absorb here. The lantern will still be viewable from most angles and the KCP&L building will continue to be a landmark part of our skyline.

Posted: **Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:09 am**

There is not blank wall of the P& L buildilng. Other than lack of windows, Except for the lower 10 that are buff brick, it is the same cut decorative design as on the windowed sides, except blank limestone where glass would be, Let's see the LM tower does not have windows, so I guess you call it blank, as are most walls in the original Nelson building. Would like to see this size at the ne corner Wyandotte at 13 where the long propose office building was envisioned.

Posted: **Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:10 am**

Love that something is going in there, beats the vacant lot now. I’ll reserve judgement on design until some better renderings come out. Fingers crossed it will happen. Given current financial market, political climate towards development that require incentives (which it most certainly will need), I give it 50/50 shot. I hope they have rock solid financials & secure lender lined up. Hate to have another hole dug and the project goes belly up

Posted: **Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:22 am**

My other thought is wondering what Cordish's reaction to this is, since it will be the first new residential tower downtown that's really competing with their 3 buildings. I'm hoping this actually gets Cordish to get off their ass and start moving more quickly or the market is gonna find someone else who realizes all these buildings are getting leased, and take advantage of it.

Posted: **Wed Mar 01, 2023 2:00 am**

I have no problem with it. It appears to contrast enough with P&L to not detract away from it. Since it's apartments, the interiors will be lit up at night as opposed to what exists now -- two blank walls. I'm just happy that the west blank wall of P&L might be covered up.

Eventually, most of this building is going to be blocked by other buildings from several angles.

Posted: **Wed Mar 01, 2023 8:37 am**

Great to see the interest in a 30 floor building but questionable for this location butted up against P&L building. Needs a design that better complements P&L or shorter or another location.

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