KCRag Forum

Highlander wrote: One thing I have noticed about suburban developments like this....they are built for obsolescence while more urban centers like the Plaza keep on ticking through the years.  How many old suburban centers are there that are still going strong in the metro?  Even Metcalf South, once the pride of Johnson County is obsolete and I suspect the flagship, Oak Park Mall, is going to be suffering when the newly slated commercial developments in southern JoCo are finished.  Suburban development tends to roll on outward leaving blight in its path whereas urban centers at least have some long-term staying power. 
 

The Plaza has kept on ticking because of good owners/operators and its changes over the years.  The Plaza today is quite different than the Plaza of 30 years ago and 70 years ago.  Without those changes it could have been empty as well.

Urban Centers have also seen declines and no staying power.  Downtown KCMO.  Downtown KCK.  31st and Troost.  The Landing.  Downtown NKC.  And others. 

aknowledgeableperson wrote: This post is the most accurate about the history of the Great Plains Mall.  However, as a factory/outlet mall it fell onto hard times much like the two similiar malls in Lawrence and I am not sure about the financial condition of the one in Odessa.  To work as a regular mall it does not have a population base nearby to support it.  Independence Center had a similiar condition a few years after it was opened.  It was isolated and it took some time before the population/development around it caught up to it. Unless there is a change in the neighborhood around it the Oak Park Mall should have a long history.  The Plaza has succeeded because it has been remodeled (store mix) over the years.

Metcalfe South is in a pretty nice neighborhood and it cratered.  Yea, that has something to with it but as long as new competition keeps coming in further and further out into OP, it will tend to leave the older stuff behind it without its former customer base. 

Metcalf South and Ward Parkway are both in good neighborhoods.  Their weaknesses had a lot to do with tenant mix and management.  Something that the Plaza avoided.

You may not recall all of the uproar there was when the Plaza was going through its changes a few years ago.  Losing a grocery store.  Losing moderately priced shops.  Etc.  Without those changes the Plaza too could have been a ghost town.

there's a general rule that residential must precede retail. retail can't come first. I wonder why that axiom wasn't adhered to in these developments.

trailerkid wrote: Marshall's R.I.P.

It's moving to the new Olathe Point development at 119th and Blackbob.

Interesting 2006 retail market forcecast from The Winbury Group. It touches on retail development in all parts of Metro, and talks about South Johnson County's retail saturation, particulary once One Corbin Park opens. I'm sure none of that will bode will for the not so great mall of the great plains.

Link to PDF article at Grub Ellis The Winbury Group web-site:

http://www.winbury.com/PDF/2006%20KC%20 ... recast.pdf

I was visiting a friend who lives in Gardner, and we went to see a movie at the Olathe 30 AMC. We had time to kill so we stopped at The Great Mall on the way. Our Movie at AMC started at 10 PM. We were at the Mall from 8 to 9 PM. Interesting to note that the Dickinson theartre there was already closed for the night with not a light on or person in sight when we left the mall at 9 PM. I thought the theatre was completely closed down, but I guess they just close early for the day.

I don't think that geography was really the problem for this joint.  It was just a bad idea, badly executed.  The developers never seemed to have a clear idea about what it was supposed to be . . . "lets build a giant, discount, quasi-outlet mall with no known anchors".    Sounds like a great concept.  There was never anything about the concept that was going to be capable of drawing in customers long term, whether it was in Olathe or Leawood or anywhere else. 

LenexatoKCMO wrote: I don't think that geography was really the problem for this joint.  It was just a bad idea, badly executed.  The developers never seemed to have a clear idea about what it was supposed to be . . . "lets build a giant, discount, quasi-outlet mall with no known anchors".   :roll:  Sounds like a great concept.  There was never anything about the concept that was going to be capable of drawing in customers long term, whether it was in Olathe or Leawood or anywhere else. 

The concept proved successful elsewhwere. Great Mall is a lookalike to any of the Mills malls around the country. The Mills malls just have better tenants and management. It's the execution that failed in Olathe.

the Great Mall is the retail equivalent of my parents' junk drawer:  random, hodgepodge, ignored.

If I am reading this thread right the problem is not the mall but the tennants that occupy it. Back in the early eightys the manufacturing comunities started a concept that was to revolutionise the way that we do business. This concept was called Just in Time. Meaning that (say a car factory) would only produce a car when the dealers order them. The factory in turn would order just enough stock from its suppliers (TRW, Chicago Rawhide, Delco, SKF, etc) to satisfy that days production. The suppliers for example Chicago Rawhide would gear up its finishing lines to spring and test its seals. The Press line would then have to put the mold in and start to produce the next days seals. The phosphate line and tubing line would be producing the raw material neaded to satisfy the production of that day. The metal suppliers would then send replacement product in.
    Fast forward to today. we have seen the terms Kaisan and Kanban come into the american terminology. With these ways of production we are slowly seeing excesses in retail comming to an end. With these dwindling excesses outlet malls are starting to suffer as the product is just not there to sell. I know in an earlier thread I said that we should save the malls but outlet malls served their pourpose to rid the excess inventory and now they are now just relics.

No- its the mall. First off, it was the last indoor mall when most everything is now going toward an outdoor "plaza style". Second, it should have been two floors instead of one. All the stores are way too spread out. Third, the carpet (as I have heard from an employee of the mall) was leftover bowling alley carpet. I cant stand it.

There were some better stores when it started, but most have bailed out as they realized it was a poor design.

I think that the tenants were more of an issue. Although it was marketed as an outlet mall, the tenant mix didn't reflect what people were used to getting from the ones in Odessa, the Lake, etc. in terms of stores and discounts. There are several exceptions, such as the Hagar store, which wasn't there very long, and Eddie Bauer, but mostly it was like going to a low-end mall.

From what I've seen, the best outlet malls are much farther outside of metro areas that Great Mall is. From what I've read, that's because the department stores and other major retailers had (still have?) such clout with Tommy Hilfiger, et al that they would threaten to stop carrying their clothing if an outlet store were opened inside their market area. If that's true, then it really hindered Great Mall's ability to attract the types of tenants that it needed to differentiate the place in the eyes of consumers.

I live about 2 miles from GMGPs...saw the space developed and the mall built.  Lots of excitement and anticipation during that time.

My very first impression upon my first visit..."this sucks".

If it sucked then, imagine how bad it sucks now.

What a huge blunder and embarrassment.

The only people it appeals to en masse are country folks from the Johnson County hinterlands.  And, they are only going to buy heavy metal jewelry/attire and be enthralled by 2003 styles for so long.

yup, and just imagine how we will all be talking about the other shopping strip mall development that is generating excitement, in 15 years. gee, i wonder.

Yes, because all new projects are exactly the same.

kcdcchef wrote: yup, and just imagine how we will all be talking about the other shopping strip mall development that is generating excitement, in 15 years. gee, i wonder.

Which one?  119th and Black Bob?

StL_Dan wrote: Which one?  119th and Black Bob?

I think he's talking about the Truman Sports Complex.

Hey I love the pictures of Bush III StL_Dan are you going to keep them on.

StL_Dan wrote: Which one?  119th and Black Bob?

legends at village west. i think this forum will still be around then, and i am sure we will be talking about how shitty it became.

kcdcchef wrote: legends at village west. i think this forum will still be around then, and i am sure we will be talking about how shitty it became.

Keep your fingers crossed, oh jolly one.