KCRag Forum

langosta wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:48 pm

Metro wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 2:14 pm Well its July any updates? Absolutely love the idea of this project and location.

There won’t be any updates until rents vs construction costs allow you to build without incentives. The only update I suspect we will ever see is a for sale sign

Metro wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 10:55 pm

langosta wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:48 pm

Metro wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 2:14 pm Well its July any updates? Absolutely love the idea of this project and location.

There won’t be any updates until rents vs construction costs allow you to build without incentives. The only update I suspect we will ever see is a for sale sign

Perhaps a dumb question but why couldn't this project get incentives?

langosta wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 8:54 am Keep in mind we can’t even relatively average apartments incentives and many projects with incentives + affordable aren’t penciling out.

langosta wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 6:35 am You can take a sample financial model online and adjust it to compare.

Some simple math is that if 20% of units rent for 50% of market rate, then you are seeing a 10% overall reduction in revenues. Costs stay the exact same if not increase slightly.

The other issue users here have identified is that it is not a particularly efficient means of creating affordable housing. High rise units have a significant construction premium vs 5+1 which itself has a premium over slab on grade. If you really wanted to maximize affordable construction, you would build the affordable elsewhere and not in the tower itself.

Another issue is that developers only have so much flexibility. They need returns that can attract debt and equity investors to the project. Sometimes this is a local bank really just interested in KC but often it’s an outside bank or investor. As the project grows in size, the likely hood of needing non-KC capital increases exponentially.

KCDowntown wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:19 pm The project being voted on tomorrow appears to have added 4 floors to 19 total, and added 41 units to 279 total units.

KCDowntown

Metro wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:17 am

langosta wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 6:35 am You can take a sample financial model online and adjust it to compare.

Some simple math is that if 20% of units rent for 50% of market rate, then you are seeing a 10% overall reduction in revenues. Costs stay the exact same if not increase slightly.

The other issue users here have identified is that it is not a particularly efficient means of creating affordable housing. High rise units have a significant construction premium vs 5+1 which itself has a premium over slab on grade. If you really wanted to maximize affordable construction, you would build the affordable elsewhere and not in the tower itself.

Another issue is that developers only have so much flexibility. They need returns that can attract debt and equity investors to the project. Sometimes this is a local bank really just interested in KC but often it’s an outside bank or investor. As the project grows in size, the likely hood of needing non-KC capital increases exponentially.

I appreciate your posts that's what makes this place great. Very hard to find this kind of conversation with people around town. Forgive as this is kind of off topic but it sounds like the current climate in KC is less development friendly is there a chance a city like Omaha surpasses KC in population in the next decade? Google lists them at 487k while KC is at 508k

FangKC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:35 pm The next mayoral candidates need to meet with KC Tenants and point out how they have not accomplished a thing to add more housing to the City, and their approach has only made it harder for people trying to find affordable housing. Demand the KC Tenants put forth a proposal where they do that and how they plan to finance that.

When they show up at public forums and cause disruptions, openly challenge them and ask them to show how many units they have built or kept affordable. After they do that (or not), have a printed flyer to hand out to the audience showing the number of housing units they stopped from happening (including the affordable subset), then compare how successful their "campaign" has been. Also include in the flyer the number of people seeking affordable housing through the Housing Authority since before KC Tenants formed, and how many are on the list now. Show how demand has only grown and that KC Tenants has been ineffective.

Then politely balance that out with praising them for helping low-income people gain more power to deal with bad landlords, but explain they have only stymied new housing units being added. There will be no additional affordable units in KCMO until new units are built because people with more financial resources rent or buy the existing units keeping them out of the affordable pipeline.

If new units are being built, people with more resources will rent and buy those units instead. There will be less competition for older properties that low-income people normally find affordable.

TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:58 pm Very glad this and the other Plaza project appear to be getting built soon.

My only issue with this is that it's all happening on the furthest corner away from the brand new street car terminal...I wish we'd be building around that instead of the opposite direction.

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:26 pm

TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:58 pm Very glad this and the other Plaza project appear to be getting built soon.

My only issue with this is that it's all happening on the furthest corner away from the brand new street car terminal...I wish we'd be building around that instead of the opposite direction.

going where there's space, especially since it is vacant land in that area of 47th & Madison in front of the BR building. Also these plans have been in the hopper for a while a believe, predating the street car expansion.

I agree developing more closer to street car would be great. However a lot of land over there already has stuff on it. But a few buildings could be repurposed for sure. But I think we'll see more action on the East side of Plaza soon.

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:46 am I would tend to agree. As a tennis player, who plays competitive amateur tennis with USTA and various Club tennis, I have played at those courts and enjoyed playing down there. But I will admit the facility has gone through so many changes in management and been mismanaged over the years.

I think a better solution would be to look to build a new facility somewhere close in the area that provides players a better experience & access. I don't think the rooftop would work out all that well. Perhaps look to build something in Their Park or Loose Park (which has some courts already). Another thought would be along Ward Parkway, West of the plaza in the green space there. I know there are some public courts along that stretch and perhaps enough space to create a tennis center of sorts with outdoor courts and bubble in the winter.