KCRag Forum

^^^
And the stadium is facing the wrong direction.

While I'm happy to see the hubbub surrounding Washington Square Park, I'm not sure that I understand the intense focus there when Barney Allis plaza is much better situated as a tourist draw and could (SHOULD) be redone more easily, and Penn Valley is a legit central urban park with tons of natural potential that is almost entirely underutilized despite some great recent efforts.

IMO, either of those two options make more sense tackle with this kind of gusto. Ideally of course, let's see major improvements to all three!

rxlexi wrote:While I'm happy to see the hubbub surrounding Washington Square Park, I'm not sure that I understand the intense focus there when Barney Allis plaza is much better situated as a tourist draw and could (SHOULD) be redone more easily, and Penn Valley is a legit central urban park with tons of natural potential that is almost entirely underutilized despite some great recent efforts.

IMO, either of those two options make more sense tackle with this kind of gusto. Ideally of course, let's see major improvements to all three!

Isn't Barney Allis Plaza owned by the convention department?

easily is in context of having the department funds to do the work.

Parks <> own all parks in KC

Isn't Barney Allis Plaza owned by the convention department?

If so, I didn't know; thanks for the info.

Whatever the ownership, the space is in a prime location for a vibrant public centerpiece downtown and is currently a wasteland. Would love to see a City Garden-like (StL) transformation here.

.

personally, I'd like to see Barney Allis Plaza earmarked for mixed use space. The city keeps it as is and can hand-pick who they sell to for future development.

Washington Square Park I'd like to see there at least be the same amount of park space kept with a pedestrian bridge to the north of the terminal rr. residential with a back door to a neighborhood public park has a lot of value for downtown.

"Isn't Barney Allis Plaza owned by the convention department?

easily is in context of having the department funds to do the work.

Parks <> own all parks in KC"


BAP is not owned by the convention department, just controlled by it in that booking/reservation and some maintenance is done by it. It is not "dedicated" park land in that it only use is for a park and related uses.

Barney Allis doesn't have to become an amazing city park, just a better public space. As I mentioned, I think a dense and well-curated sculpture park/garden would be a nice draw here. Add a revamped cafe/bar and you have another potential downtown attraction. The space itself, while elevated, is nicely closed in and has a very urban feel; it should amount to more than it is currently, IMO.

rxlexi wrote:Barney Allis doesn't have to become an amazing city park, just a better public space. As I mentioned, I think a dense and well-curated sculpture park/garden would be a nice draw here. Add a revamped cafe/bar and you have another potential downtown attraction. The space itself, while elevated, is nicely closed in and has a very urban feel; it should amount to more than it is currently, IMO.

barney allis' problem isn't just one of design. it's four sides are fronted by low foot traffic places -- big-setback marriott, garages, municipal, and the never-ending concrete walls of bartle. it's the same problem penn valley park has, but on a much smaller scale.

if you want a successful downtown park, put one where there is potential for regular foot traffic. the transformation of oppenstein is a good example (made more attractive just by adding tables and consistent maintenance/cleaning).

barney allis' problem isn't just one of design. it's four sides are fronted by low foot traffic places -- big-setback marriott, garages, municipal, and the never-ending concrete walls of bartle. it's the same problem penn valley park has, but on a much smaller scale.

All excellent points, particularly Bartle. But you're also across the street from downtown's largest hotel, and the Muni which at least provides a variety of nighttime/weekend and family activities vs. an office block. Potentially very close to a new convention hotel as well.

I again point to City Garden in StL. It sits in the center of the rather forlorn Gateway Mall, across from the nearly empty AT&T tower and other non-descript office uses. In no way a foot traffic hub. But it is enough of a destination that it is frequently mobbed. Folks drive-there to "be there". Of course, this was a multi-million dollar investment. But I could see this space being utilized similarly, and the parking is already there...

http://www.citygardenstl.org/

agreed on citygarden. downtown STL has done practically nothing right, except this (and washington ave).

DaveKCMO wrote:

rxlexi wrote:Barney Allis doesn't have to become an amazing city park, just a better public space. As I mentioned, I think a dense and well-curated sculpture park/garden would be a nice draw here. Add a revamped cafe/bar and you have another potential downtown attraction. The space itself, while elevated, is nicely closed in and has a very urban feel; it should amount to more than it is currently, IMO.

barney allis' problem isn't just one of design. it's four sides are fronted by low foot traffic places -- big-setback marriott, garages, municipal, and the never-ending concrete walls of bartle. it's the same problem penn valley park has, but on a much smaller scale.

if you want a successful downtown park, put one where there is potential for regular foot traffic. the transformation of oppenstein is a good example (made more attractive just by adding tables and consistent maintenance/cleaning).

The foot traffic is hit or miss...when something is going on, all 4 sides are super busy with foot traffic....and 12th and Wyandotte both almost always got foot traffic on it.

It just needs to be more inviting...the picnic tables sitting on pebbles and now missing tennis court just don't seem to be enough.

A good redesign of the existing plaza would be placing the restaurant building in the center of the square and allowing a beer garden restaurant to operate there. Put in lots of outdoor seating on all four sides with umbrellas over the tables. You see this setup all over Europe. Barney Allis can be a hostile environment on a hot, sunny day. At night, it can be quite scenic with the surrounding buildings, the Bartle Hall pylons, The Folly marquee, the light show on the Marriott, and the reliefs on the side of Municipal Auditorium.

If I were tearing down and rebuilding the entire structure, I would keep the parking garage underneath, but ring the upper square with long narrow buildings with entrances to the plaza on the corners, with elevators on the south end. Then, the City, or some appropriate authority, would lease out spaces for restaurants and bars. The center of the structure would have a small, intimate square with a European fee--with a centerpiece fountain and cobblestones. The buildings would only be one story--with awnings for shade--so one could see see all the surrounding buildings, and sights. This would become the hangout of conventioneers and locals during and after events at Bartle, the PAC, Municipal, and the Folly. During other times, it would be just a hangout for downtown residents, workers, and residents during both day and night. If the leased spaces were the right mix, it might work as a full-time public space. The spaces would have tall windows that opened in warm weather, so people could see outside. The interior courtyard would feel intimate, but the low building heights would allow it to be expansive to the surroundings as well.

One might call it Four Corners of the World at Barney Allis Plaza, and have a German Beer Garden, a French Bistro, and English Pub, and an Asian Noodle restaurant/sushi bar, etc.

The restaurants could all pitch in and fund performers like musicians, jugglers, fire poi artists, mimes, etc.

I think the beer garden idea is best for Barney Allis Plaza. In my opinion, this is already a pretty solid public space. The access really isn't that bad, and come on... it is in the center of downtown, surrounded by lots of activity. There just needs to be a little bit more to draw people up. I think a beer garden would be a really big draw.

Office workers on break and after work would use this regularly. This block is surrounded by thousands of hotel rooms and a convention center... which means there would be a lot of out of towners looking for something like this right outside their hotel room. I think this is a lovely idea. I can imagine drinking beers while relaxing in Barney Allis... and it is an enjoyable thought.

Demosthenes wrote:I think the beer garden idea is best for Barney Allis Plaza. In my opinion, this is already a pretty solid public space. The access really isn't that bad, and come on... it is in the center of downtown, surrounded by lots of activity. There just needs to be a little bit more to draw people up. I think a beer garden would be a really big draw.

Office workers on break and after work would use this regularly. This block is surrounded by thousands of hotel rooms and a convention center... which means there would be a lot of out of towners looking for something like this right outside their hotel room. I think this is a lovely idea. I can imagine drinking beers while relaxing in Barney Allis... and it is an enjoyable thought.

I have this thought every time I cut through BA Plaza (pretty regularly). The cafe could be refurbished into a nice bar, the tennis courts into a landscaped area with long tables, even if only for events.

Boulevard could make a nice downtown statement by investing in the "core". Surely would be appreciated by most downtowners.

macnw wrote:Boulevard could make a nice downtown statement by investing in the "core". Surely would be appreciated by most downtowners.

huh?

KCPowercat wrote: The foot traffic is hit or miss...when something is going on, all 4 sides are super busy with foot traffic....and 12th and Wyandotte both almost always got foot traffic on it.

It just needs to be more inviting...the picnic tables sitting on pebbles and now missing tennis court just don't seem to be enough.

I'm sure that people looking where to put conventions want to see things to do nearby. P&L has helped here, but I can't imagine that taking some of the properties nearby and doing something would hurt.

Look at Bartle and what's nearby as a whole. Flat faces, parking lots, abandoned buildings. The lack of foot traffic at Bartle hall can be fixed by improving the environment for events. No one will care if they have to walk by an unappealing block if the next one over is well done.

I quite like the idea of a beer garden. I wouldn't go but that's a perfect post-convention activity. Put a 3-4 story story structure on one half with the beer garden in the bottom level. Enclosed in winter and summer, opens up in nice weather with the garden space next to the fountain that's open to all and allows open containers.

On the middle floors use for retail and general space for tourism. Flex space that can be used for free to put manage big events. Convention district sales offices. A Kansas City store, Missouri welcome center and such.

Then on the fourth floor get one of the signature BBQ chains to locate downtown. Oklahoma Joe's is only in KS today and they could be a signature downtown destination that could draw thousands of people into the city on week nights.

Then on top put some kind of rooftop garden space that's open to the public 24x7. Take your BBQ or beer or your own food up to the top level and just relax.

zonk wrote:

macnw wrote:Boulevard could make a nice downtown statement by investing in the "core". Surely would be appreciated by most downtowners.

huh?

think as someone from Lee's Summit. Boulevard is in an industrial district, not downtown. If you live downtown the view is different but I can tell you that 99.99% of people in the city won't drive down SW Blvd.

If they would put in a signature bar, perhaps find a world-class chef to open up a coordinating restaurant with simple tavern food, that would be investing in the core in a much different way.

could do a classic Kansas City theme. Instead of a German beer hall, open up a Cowtown Beer Hall.

KC Strip Steaks and Boulevard Beer has a ring to it.

They can't. State law. And 99.99% might be just a skosh hyperbolic.