KCRag Forum

snapped a few pics of the square yesterday.  They are cruising down the homestretch for the weekend festival.  A lot more has been done today such as the tower lighting and the speaker system.  Not the best of photos, but here is a sneak peak.  (I have not seen a drop of water out of the fountain yet)

oh my god, they have really done a lot since i rolled past there mere hours ago.

I still see room for improvement.

Astounding how 20th century modernist dogma completely deracinated every element of grace and scale to public spaces.

Looks real nice.

So whats at the top of those poles like you see in the 5th picture down?

I have always looked upon Crown Center in a good light.Crown Center stuck around when
others left downtown.I say Cheers!

When I walked by the other day I couldn't believe how much the new square looks . . . exactly like the old square.  I guess I was expecting a more dramatic change - well hopefully the updated fountain will be impressive. 

LenexatoKCMO wrote: When I walked by the other day I couldn't believe how much the new square looks . . . exactly like the old square.  I guess I was expecting a more dramatic change - well hopefully the updated fountain will be impressive. 

And the updated sound system!

Glad they kept there 70s style planters and trashcans.  The polished wood looks good. 

ComandanteCero wrote: I think the main reason Crown Center hasn't failed is because it has powerful backers with deep pockets who have been willing to subsidize its operation when the going has gotten tough.  There are many creative ways to make a mall look alive even when vacancy rates are high (i.e paperback stores, christmas ornament shops, gift card outlets, etc).  These are mostly phantom shops thrown up over night to keep things looking healthy and full, not to mention generous leases and below market rents for certain key tenants.

Anywho, not trying to be negative, but a real estate friend told me about how malls use these techniques, and how Crown Center was one of the key examples of this.

And what is wrong with a local firm fitting the bill for their project when the hard times get going.  This is unlike Commerce Bank who asks for TIF because paint is pealing in their nasty 7th and Main building.  Certainly this is better than the greedy owner of say the Mall of the Great plains.  The one sprawl artist who built at 199th street & no where hoping to capitalize on the Olathe consumption......now things aren't looking up and he wants out of the investment and the whole mall is threatened to go vacant, bankrupt and obsolete potentially in years.
And if they want to make the mall look alive I say good on them.  When a mall looks dead it looses customers big time.

Isn't this what we want out of our big corporations in this city?  Personally this is just what I want out of them.  Where it is their money and their name on the line with a major urban project.

tjokskalle wrote: I have always looked upon Crown Center in a good light.Crown Center stuck around when
others left downtown.I say Cheers!

thank you. and if it had not been for crown center, there would not have been any construction going on dt for the last 20 or so years. cheers and then some.

LenexatoKCMO wrote: When I walked by the other day I couldn't believe how much the new square looks . . . exactly like the old square.  I guess I was expecting a more dramatic change - well hopefully the updated fountain will be impressive. 

i was never expecting a big change. not crown centers style.

nice to have you back chef, notice I post more when you post , nothing like a born and raised KCMO guy that has been around the block vs a bunch of kids with masters in urban planning (nothing personal).

I could not imagine KC if Crown Center and ultimately Hallmark did not exist or if Hallmark were a Sprint type of company.  KC would make Buffalo look like Chicago.

Crown Center is awesome and it contrasts and compliments the Downtown and Plaza built environments perfectly and it's one area of the city that is not constantly falling apart too. (mostly speaking of the past 30 years before 2002)

GRID wrote: nice to have you back chef, notice I post more when you post , nothing like a born and raised KCMO guy that has been around the block vs a bunch of kids with master's in urban planning.

i should make that my new signature. careful what you say on here GRID, there are those that will call you a debbie downer for keeping it real, or perhaps a non loyalist to kc for speaking the truth. but, that was some FUNNY SHIT!!!!

GRID wrote:

I could not imagine KC if Crown Center and ultimately Hallmark did not exist or if Hallmark were a Sprint type of company.  KC would make Buffalo look like Chicago.

so true b. so very very true. it is so sad that there are so many people on this forum that bitch and moan CONSTANTLY about the one great part of kc that has hung in there through the shit storm that was the second half of the 20th century in kc. i mean, all they did is take a blighted part of kc, signboard hill, and turn it into an amazing area, with, world class shopping, dining, entertainment, lodging, and festivals, and oh yeah, damn near as much office space as o.p., and they keep adding, and all these sandal wearing bearded 26 year olds with urban planning degrees and architectual degrees get on here and talk shit on it. AFUCKENMAZING.

kc-vino wrote: And what is wrong with a local firm fitting the bill for their project when the hard times get going.  This is unlike Commerce Bank who asks for TIF because paint is pealing in their nasty 7th and Main building.  Certainly this is better than the greedy owner of say the Mall of the Great plains.  The one sprawl artist who built at 199th street & no where hoping to capitalize on the Olathe consumption......now things aren't looking up and he wants out of the investment and the whole mall is threatened to go vacant, bankrupt and obsolete potentially in years.
And if they want to make the mall look alive I say good on them.  When a mall looks dead it looses customers big time.

Isn't this what we want out of our big corporations in this city?  Personally this is just what I want out of them.  Where it is their money and their name on the line with a major urban project.

i don't remember the context of that quote, but my main problem with Crown Center is its complete lack of will to re-invent itself.  I agree Hallmark has been a great corporate citizen, and i'll take a mall with some phantom shops over a dead mall any day.  But it has not been able to looke beyond it's 70's era vision of a self contained fortress like office park/mall/hotel center.  I think Crown Center has a lot of potential, as long as it is willing to start making drastic changes, re-engaging the streets, and turning itself inside out where it can.  Obviously the skywalks are a cool retro feature, and they're nice for the once a year "look at how the future once looked" tours, but the  rest of the complex could use a good redusting and rethinking.  The Panera Bread is a step in the right direction, and gives me renewed hope for the area's future, but so much more is needed, and needs to start happening now.

FOR EXAMPLE:  this sorry excuse for an urban plaza.  The space in itself has much potential, and i'll say it doesn't look like bad.  However, the surrounding uses (barring the Panera), and the perimeter of this so called public space, is anti-thetical to anything urban or socially invigorating since it largely consists of dead space and blank walls.  It's not difficult to imagine how much more interesting and lively the area would be if it had Panera style windows and sidewalk cafes all along the perimeter (where it didn't interfere with other uses such as the skating rink).

Not only that, i think Crown Center is a great place to continue building high rise residential buildings, but built in such a way that they interact with the streets and the supposed public spaces.

Crown Center's future needs to be one of reintegrating itself into the urban fabric, but it hasn't made any bold movements in that direction yet.

kcdcchef wrote: i was never expecting a big change. not crown centers style.

True - but it seems a hell of a lot of expense and effort for an end result which 99% of visitors will never be able to discern as different.  They could have spent some of that money replacing the dated, 80's-style neon signage inside or perhaps replaced the dirty water stained ceiling tiles. 

It hasn't been mentioned on here yet but the Westin is redoing their pershing road facade and driveway.

Don't forget to come on down to Crown Center tonight for Cinco de Mayo! 5:30-10:30! Too bad the Freighthouse bridge isn't up yet so pedestrians can go easily from Crown Center's Cinco de Mayo festival to First Friday.

anyway..... I did join the Westin's gym after Rivermarket Fitness closed. Their prices were close (about $10.00 more at Crown Center), had a lap pool, massage rooms, great cardio equipment, and they vaildate parking.  I think this will tide me over till the new gym downtown opens. 

But, if you consider when Crown Center was built, what was there before, and amount of convention business it brings in,  Crown Center is successful.  When it was built, the area was in very bad shape, so its no wonder that the design was somewhat insular.  If, as some folks have stated, Hallmark and the Hall family is subsidizing the shops to keep them open, then I say: "Thank you!" 

Would it be built the same way today? No.  But kudos to Hallmark for staying in the core, and for providing some excellent office space that helped prevent even more comanies to from fleeing to the burbs. 

tat2kc wrote: But, if you consider when Crown Center was built, what was there before, and amount of convention business it brings in,  Crown Center is successful.  When it was built, the area was in very bad shape, so its no wonder that the design was somewhat insular.   If, as some folks have stated, Hallmark and the Hall family is subsidizing the shops to keep them open, then I say: "Thank you!" 

Would it be built the same way today? No.  But kudos to Hallmark for staying in the core, and for providing some excellent office space that helped prevent even more comanies to from fleeing to the burbs. 

I actually like the uniformity of Crown Center and think they should keep many of their strict design paradigms that keep it unique within the city center. It feels like you're truly in a city within a city or a mini-downtown. The complex has an inward focus, but it was built at a time when most everything around it was falling apart.

However, like I said before...CC Shops needs to add some tenants that help it compete for the years to come. The local stuff is great, but adding a few desirable national tenants would only add to its cache. If CC Redevelopment can't do it then turn management of the shopping center over to a national firm familiar with the types of retail that is needed. I'm not talking about Claire's and Abercrombie, but stuff that would attract older, middle calls to upper middle class women.

Further, some of the land in the complex could be developed with storefront retail within the existing design paradigms. Particularly, I'm thinking about the spots where there are just patches of grass. CC can still be CC and have bustling street activity.

The American Institute of Architects has posthumously awarded its highest honor, the 2007 Gold Medal, to Edward Larabee Barnes(died 2004.)  Barnes was the original master architect for Crown Center and personally designed the first structure, the "horizontal skyscraper" office on the east side of the square.

I'm hearing a rumor Crown Center will replace the screens with a live theatre...maybe a reaction to what's happening at Power & Light. Also, I'm sure they're tired of all the summer problems with kids everywhere.

I don't think that CC would remove the movie theatre. I wouldn't doubt if they enacted similar rule that the Plaza has regarding underaged children needing to be accompanied by an adult for admission.