KCRag Forum

while Grid's tone is a little off-putting, I think he makes a great point.  KC has the ideal infrastructure for a Denver/Minny style system of well-used trails and green space.

PVP IS embarassingly under-utilized...the city needs to dump about $100m into infrastructure and attractions there to turn it into a the awesome, rugged central green space it deserves to be - short MTN bike and hiking trails, botanical garden or grand fountain, the aforementioned pedestrian bridges, totally clean up the beautiful but shitty lake space and build a boathouse/cafe and on and on.

Our riverfront is the same way.  The kick-ass idea for a bi-state heritage trail sits 3/4 done, with a neat crossing over the Kaw but no money to compete the ramp from west City market down to the bottoms.  It's half-assed things like this that wouldn't happen if these projects were a high priority for the city.  And with our incredible legacy greenspace, "boulevard" system and hilly, wooded setting, they should be.

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I've always thought that at least part of where midtown marketplace is would be ideal for a medium sized (but smaller than loose park) fancy new urbanist style park. 34th would go straight across over to Gillham, those fantastic rowhouses would have modern friends extending to the east, facing the new park. Restore McGee, east of McGee still have a big box down grade where Costco is in midtown now but with parking underneath. Some modern rowhouses shielding Costco from view from the park on the east side of McGee, some nice lowrise mixed use infill on the west side of main facing the new park.

I'd develop the "backwater" parts of Penn Valley Park as topography would allow, maybe 1/3 of the park.

I mean if urban development was like Simcity!

Swope Park is among the best urban parks in the nation.  Back in my father's day, it was fully utilized and was quite the place to be.  East Meyer Blvd was once a swanky address.  What urban park can boast a lake, a zoo, two golf courses, wilderness, an outdoor amphitheater, athletic fields for most sports, a public pool and more.  What sucks about Swope Park is there is almost nothing that constitutes a viable community nearby.  There's hopeless depressed residential and a few private institutions along Swope Parkway but that is about it.  Most Kansas Citians who enjoy the park enjoy it in spite of it's surroundings. 

Penn Valley Park is just too isolated.  There is nothing that is inviting in the park to the surrounding residential and commercial areas; it's too inaccesible despite its central location.  The city could do all the window dressing it wants but the park would still remain isolated.

Loose and Mill Creek Parks are the only parks that are quasi urban and truly integrated with their surrounding neighborhoods.

Getting better urban parks in KC is not going to occur by changing what's in the parks, it will only happen by changing what is immediately around the parks (Swope and Penn Valley).  Both fail for different reasons.  Penn Valley is physically isolated and Swope is isolated socio economic settings.  In the latter case, it kind of works because its enormous size acts as a natural buffer but it could be so much better.   

Highlander wrote:
Loose and Mill Creek Parks are the only parks that are quasi urban and truly integrated with their surrounding neighborhoods.

Oh, I don't know, there are a lot of pocket parks that are well-traveled, integrated and "urban". There are also notable urban parks in Northeast, namely Budd and Concourse, that are used extensively by hispanics, who generally have a more pronounced promenade and park culture than Americans.

I fear the city will never open PVP to residential development, the only hope for the park is to make it a destination park. I'd like to see Swope focus on outdoors stuff (is the Blue River floatable/kayakable through the park an into Minor Park ?) and PVP should focus on tourist ammenities like the WWI museum. Perhaps a partnership with UMKC or KU or MU or K-State and the conservation dept. could yield a botanical garden or large native plant museum like Tuscon's Sonoran Desert Museum sans animals.

Also a zip line or even just a huge waterslide from the memorial down to the fountain in front of union station would be the shit...food for thought.

heatherkay wrote: That's weird.  We go to WyCo Lake a few times a year, on nice weekends, to walk around the Lake.  It always seems to be packed with families doing picnics and the Lodge usually has a wedding or something going on.  And you usually have to dodge out of the way of cars and motorcycles doing the loop.

As for dangerous, I never got that vibe.  Lots of families with lots of kids.

My aunt also freaked out when we told her we drove around the Quindaro area where my paternal grandparents lived.  At the time (2006), an acquaintance told me that Quindaro cleaned up a bit when the black muslims moved in.

chingon wrote: Also a zip line or even just a huge waterslide from the memorial down to the fountain in front of union station would be the shit...food for thought.

We can run it from the old Gondala lines that went it in a few years ago.

I saw a ton of urban biking and running this weekend.

KCPowercat wrote: I saw a ton of urban biking and running this weekend.

Was the Urban running anything like this?

Urban Freestyler - Free Running

Missouri landed two towns in the top 10 places to get a lake house -- #2 and #9 (Ozarks & Table Rock)

MIssouri is also the only state that had *multiple towns* in the top 10 list here.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/31/best-la ... 1673542590

I've got thoughts on this. Few hills I'm willing to die on but this is one of them. I don't think even Missouri grasps the potential of the lake systems there. I've met people in Arizona, Texas & even Colorado (who have the Rockies out there back door) who've said they've traveled to KC go to the lakes. Hell, they even made a huge TV show about the Ozarks recently. I've long thought we need to market the hell out of these lakes, caves & rec activities even harder nationally for KC's & Missouri's nature & rec image. It's 2 hours away from KC but yet people drive that far or more from Denver to go out into the Rockies. Missouri has the best lake systems in the country, and I think best caves too. The show piqued some interest nationally as well. Take advantage, hard. Shed this bad nature image for KC and make it a real destination. Tell people you can come into the city and then drive out to the Ozarks for amazing lakes & good hiking, kayak, caves, etc.

Imagine if KC & the lake systems were marketed as one, the impact it would have. Why not tell people you can have the city life during the week and weekend getaways at lake houses, or something? Why not encourage more people from all over to fly in for weekend trips there with KC as the conduit? Market the whole region as a package. That's what Denver does for the weekends for the same driving distances. It's really common sense, you have these very popular lakes & caves 2 hours away, package that together when marketing KC. That'll get KC up another level.

TLDR: When marketing KC they need to package the popular Missouri lakes/hikes/caves together with the city to make us even more a destination

In fairness though, while Lake of the Ozarks is a bit closer, Table Rock is really 4+ hours from KC. And you need to get south of Springfield before you really get into the meaningful Ozarks (IMHO) for hiking, so you're looking at 3.5 hrs minimum. I'm not sure about caves, are people particularly into caves outside of guided tours? Maybe. But overall, I think MO could market these things better. I think Arkansas is doing a good job at this and it is something that is used to convince people that living in NW AR for Tyson/Walmart won't be hell given the lakes and hiking are essentially outside Bentonville/Fayetteville's back door.

smh wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:14 pm In fairness though, while Lake of the Ozarks is a bit closer, Table Rock is really 4+ hours from KC. And you need to get south of Springfield before you really get into the meaningful Ozarks (IMHO) for hiking, so you're looking at 3.5 hrs minimum. I'm not sure about caves, are people particularly into caves outside of guided tours? Maybe. But overall, I think MO could market these things better. I think Arkansas is doing a good job at this and it is something that is used to convince people that living in NW AR for Tyson/Walmart won't be hell given the lakes and hiking are essentially outside Bentonville/Fayetteville's back door.

Arkansas and the Waltons are REALLY leaning into the mountain biking and trail systems. MO government at this point is not as supportive. Literally had a rails to trails conversion of the Rock Island railroad budgeted out with $70 million in federal funds. Senate struck it down. Frustrating. Having two cross country biking trails could be great marketing for the state.

Too bad there has never been a direct 4 lane route to Lake of the Ozarks to make it even half an hour closer. St Louis has always had better freeway connections to the lake. Or a 4 lane out of Clinton to Warsaw would put LOTO closer and Truman real close.

Secret is already out IMO. My family has been going to Tablerock lake every summer since literally just after the lake was made. Even since I was young it has gone from being almost all KC, Springfield, Wichita, and a smattering of STL people to now we know people who own houses on the lake from Iowa, Southern IL, Dallas, etc.

Cratedigger wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:29 pm

smh wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:14 pm In fairness though, while Lake of the Ozarks is a bit closer, Table Rock is really 4+ hours from KC. And you need to get south of Springfield before you really get into the meaningful Ozarks (IMHO) for hiking, so you're looking at 3.5 hrs minimum. I'm not sure about caves, are people particularly into caves outside of guided tours? Maybe. But overall, I think MO could market these things better. I think Arkansas is doing a good job at this and it is something that is used to convince people that living in NW AR for Tyson/Walmart won't be hell given the lakes and hiking are essentially outside Bentonville/Fayetteville's back door.

Arkansas and the Waltons are REALLY leaning into the mountain biking and trail systems. MO government at this point is not as supportive. Literally had a rails to trails conversion of the Rock Island railroad budgeted out with $70 million in federal funds. Senate struck it down. Frustrating. Having two cross country biking trails could be great marketing for the state.

And look the bottom line here is if you wanna take KC to the next level you have to package it together with Missouri's lakes & rec.

Personally if there was a way, I'd have rail from Union Station to the Ozarks or Table Rock/Branson. Especially Ozarks feels like a no-brainer. Man, that would be so cool for KC. About as good of a rail trip as one could get from the city. Imagine marketing that.

Or plane. I've flown a few times to the Osage Beach air strip and flying low from KC to Clinton then over both lakes is breathtakingly beautiful and took 40 minutes.

The ultimate guide to Kansas City waterfalls


https://www.kansascityhiker.com/kansas-city-waterfalls