Neighborhood Security ?

[jdubwaldo]

I understand but can't they just bill that to us?

I might be looking at the forest and not seeing the trees, but all of the red tape and hoops to get things done is just, wow.

[PumpkinStalker]

On a related note, not to hijack the thread...

Ladies can register for this self defense class at University Academy at 68th and Holmes.  Thought I'd pass along.

http://www.takedefense.org/

EDIT:  Tonight at 7:00

[jdubwaldo]

Cool!  I'm so happy to see different entities in the community doing these things.  I've instead registered myself for a CCW class on Saturday.... 

Maybe it's because I'm more watchful of what is going on now than normal, but I've def noticed more people out and about lately.  Maybe that is also because it has gotten to above 20 degrees and everyone's dogs are driving them crazy with energy like ours are. 

[PumpkinStalker]

Cool!  I'm so happy to see different entities in the community doing these things.  I've instead registered myself for a CCW class on Saturday....   8)

Maybe it's because I'm more watchful of what is going on now than normal, but I've def noticed more people out and about lately.  Maybe that is also because it has gotten to above 20 degrees and everyone's dogs are driving them crazy with energy like ours are. 

Same here.  Wife and I signed up for Saturday the 20th ccw.  Agree 200% on the dogs.  If we don't get to PV dog park soon our dog is going to be the end of us.

[jdubwaldo]

Good for you!  I've wanted to do that forever.  Where are you taking yours?  I signed up at some place in Claycomo, then a friend sent a link they are offerring them at Cabela's for half of the cost.  Doh. 

[PumpkinStalker]

We are going to a place up near WOF. He's a 17 yr police veteran and has been teaching firearm safety for years. We (I) are looking forward to it. The wife took some convincing! 

[jdubwaldo]

That is where I'm going.  Don something?  I'll be curious for your feedback, I'm going this Saturday.

[PumpkinStalker]

Yeah!  Don Treece. His website is a bit messy to navigate but seemed to have good qualifications and not just trying to crank out armed civilians. We aren't vigilantes here, just want to have another option, you know?  I will let you know how it goes.

[jdubwaldo]

Totally.  Safety first, I say.  I have thought about it for a long time, and no time like the present.  I say I wouldn't use it, but these days especially, like when walking the dogs myself for example I certainly don't see any reason not to!  I'll let you know how it goes this Saturday.  MO has you do a test with both types, so that will be good!

[nota]

Lots of things to think about with the CCW-lots of responsibilities, like-do you think you could look at another human (or any other living thing) and shoot to kill? Keep in mind that in this situation - and actually in any armed situation, you shoot to kill. Keep in mind that that criminal pointing that gun at you and yours doesn't have those worries.

Would you be comfy "packin"? It would certainly take awhile to get used to the places you would have to leave your trusty "friend" behind.

How 'bout just having "old faithful" around the house 24/7?

How 'bout the proximity of neighbors when you are firing? In my neighborhood, we were far apart, but that was still a big worry because of the travel of a bullet.

Just some things to think about. Myself, I was taught handgun by a retired Army firearms instructor before Prop B. I did really well. It's not unlike golf where you use a deadly weapon to aim at and hit a target   I got fairly proficient-I could beat my instructor if he wore glasses instead of his contacts. He had an immense arsenal. I've fired fully automatic weapons, big and small handguns, sawed off shotguns, etc. I have a gorgeous Browning .22 semi-auto hand gun. Long ago, I decided what was right for me was to leave it on the closet shelf in the case without the magazine-those are on a different high shelf in the closet - I just wasn't up to doing the things above.

I was the only one at the Bullet Hole who asked for bullseye targets rather than silhouettes. They all laughed at me, but that's just me.

I voted in favor of all the gun legislation, would again, and I believe in it. It's just not for me.

BTW-My old instructor always told me that the absolute best weapon for purely home protection is a sawed off (short barrelled) shotgun. For many reasons, least of all that when the criminal hears that noise of chambering of the shell, they're scared out of their wits. Plus you don't have to have such precise aim.

Just some comments.

[PumpkinStalker]

Lots of things to think about with the CCW-lots of responsibilities, like-do you think you could look at another human (or any other living thing) and shoot to kill? Keep in mind that in this situation - and actually in any armed situation, you shoot to kill. Keep in mind that that criminal pointing that gun at you and yours doesn't have those worries.

Would you be comfy "packin"? It would certainly take awhile to get used to the places you would have to leave your trusty "friend" behind.

How 'bout just having "old faithful" around the house 24/7?

How 'bout the proximity of neighbors when you are firing? In my neighborhood, we were far apart, but that was still a big worry because of the travel of a bullet.

Just some things to think about. Myself, I was taught handgun by a retired Army firearms instructor before Prop B. I did really well. It's not unlike golf where you use a deadly weapon to aim at and hit a target   I got fairly proficient-I could beat my instructor if he wore glasses instead of his contacts. He had an immense arsenal. I've fired fully automatic weapons, big and small handguns, sawed off shotguns, etc. I have a gorgeous Browning .22 semi-auto hand gun. Long ago, I decided what was right for me was to leave it on the closet shelf in the case without the magazine-those are on a different high shelf in the closet - I just wasn't up to doing the things above.

I was the only one at the Bullet Hole who asked for bullseye targets rather than silhouettes. They all laughed at me, but that's just me.

I voted in favor of all the gun legislation, would again, and I believe in it. It's just not for me.

BTW-My old instructor always told me that the absolute best weapon for purely home protection is a sawed off (short barrelled) shotgun. For many reasons, least of all that when the criminal hears that noise of chambering of the shell, they're scared out of their wits. Plus you don't have to have such precise aim.

Just some comments.

I think about those things all the time, you have to.  If you don't, then you shouldn't be thinking about CCW.  I think one of the most common misonceptions about anyone interested in CCW, is that everyone arounds you just assumes you are taking this to church, to McDonalds, to grandma's house on Sunday, etc.  I will probably carry 10% of the time, and only when I feel my risk of personal harm is high.  For instance, I have to go out in the middle of the night to a 24 hour store to get some medicine or something.  Frankly, everyone I've talked to says that if you lead a busy life, carrying is a pain in the ass.  I change clothes 3 times a day, once for work, once for casual, and once for house renovations.  I don't have time to keep moving my gun and re-concealing it.  It's simply an option should I feel I have a heightened risk in an activity I'm about to do.

I also think you raise a good point that my father always taught me.  He was a police officer in the metro and always said, any shot you take should mean your intentions are to kill.  Many people don't understand this.  It simply means, you only use your gun when you feel there is absolutely no other option than to kill your attacker.  You try other methods first if there is time.  Put another way, it keeps you from taking the life of someone that doesn't necessarily need to be taken. 

And related to that, I think a lot of people assume that your gun is your first option.  It's not.  In fact, it's my last option.  And only when my personal harm is at stake.  If they want my wallet, they can have it, my car, take it.  But the minute you try to cause harm to me, my wife, or my future kids, that's when the game changes. 

All in all, definitely not for everyone.  Most people should just secure their house better, get a dog (even a little yapper, since early detection is the key and not their ability to bite).  It's just another option. 

[jdubwaldo]

Totally agree with both of your thoughts, pumpkin I'm more on your page.  I grew up around all types of guns, collecting and target shooting is a hobby of my dad's, he has something like 200-some of them and has a range at his house.  I'm not crazy into that or all that interested, frankly.  However, I'm more than comfortable with it and the associated responsibility and safety precautions necessary.  My 16th bday present was a 38 revolver, which is currently loaded by my bedside.  We don't and won't have kids, so that is not an issue.  If that were the case my feelings might be different.

After I get my CCW will I pack, sometimes, absolutely so.  All of the time, absolutely not.  I'm 5'4" and 115 lbs, it wouldn't take much for someone to overtake me.  If I'm walking the dogs around the neighborhood alone at night, absolu-freakinglutely.  Do I worry about a stray bullet hitting my neighbors?  No, because I don't miss.  It is a really good point though that often people don't think about.

Do/would I have moral qualms or regrets about shooting someone who broke into my house or otherwise and threatened me and/or my husband's safety.  100% absolutely not.  

[shinatoo]

I am not against anyone's right to own or carry firearms.

But do you seriously think you are safer with a gun at your bedside. If I enter your home, locked a loaded and wake you in your bedroom with the plan to rob you. As soon as you reach for that bedside table you are toast. If I come upon you on the street from behind a building or out of a bush, cocked and level, as soon as you reach for that pistol you are done.

There is no editing bay, director or trick photography in the real world. You cannot draw that fast. And when the adrenalin is pumping and your are trying to dodge bullets your aim goes to shit.

Chances of getting shot while armed have to be ten times higher than when not armed.

[jdubwaldo]

You have a really good point, yes.  I don't think anyone is suggesting some kind of shootout.  However - let's pretend in the middle of the night while I'm sleeping, a "badguy" breaks into our house.  After the dogs go ape-shit crazy and the security alarm goes off, yes I am safer with a gun by my bedside.  If they make it that far without deciding this might be the wrong house, which is VERY unlikely, I'm ready for them if threatened..... 

[jdubwaldo]

Also, if someone is leery or is not 100% comfortable with the idea of a loaded firearm and have the proper training on safety and realize it is a last resort, they shouldn't have one.  The right carries a lot of responsiblity.  If the very small chance of a situation should arise and they aren't totally comfortable, it is something to think about because it could end very badly.  It's something to think about even if you are.

[lock+load]

I am not against anyone's right to own or carry firearms.

But do you seriously think you are safer with a gun at your bedside. If I enter your home, locked a loaded and wake you in your bedroom with the plan to rob you. As soon as you reach for that bedside table you are toast. If I come upon you on the street from behind a building or out of a bush, cocked and level, as soon as you reach for that pistol you are done.

There is no editing bay, director or trick photography in the real world. You cannot draw that fast. And when the adrenalin is pumping and your are trying to dodge bullets your aim goes to shit.

Chances of getting shot while armed have to be ten times higher than when not armed.

Excellent post.  

Pumpkin- are you really saying you feel the need to carry a gun to go to QuikTrip in the middle of the night?

[PumpkinStalker]

Excellent post.  

Pumpkin- are you really saying you feel the need to carry a gun to go to QuikTrip in the middle of the night?

Not necessarily.  But If I do, I plan to have a cool head and have the proper training and permits.  Does having it with me cause harm to anyone?

I am not against anyone's right to own or carry firearms.

But do you seriously think you are safer with a gun at your bedside. If I enter your home, locked a loaded and wake you in your bedroom with the plan to rob you. As soon as you reach for that bedside table you are toast. If I come upon you on the street from behind a building or out of a bush, cocked and level, as soon as you reach for that pistol you are done.

There is no editing bay, director or trick photography in the real world. You cannot draw that fast. And when the adrenalin is pumping and your are trying to dodge bullets your aim goes to shit.

Chances of getting shot while armed have to be ten times higher than when not armed.

Another misconception.  I'm not testing my draw skills against anyone.  It's not the wild west.  If someone kicks in my door and my dog is barking, and I have time to fire a shot in the ceiling, that's my first option.  (Besides my alarm which is already sounding).  When they hear a gunshot, they'd be stupid to come up my stairs and test their luck.  

If someone's over me with a knife in the middle of the night and wants my wallet, again, I'll tell them where it is and cooperate fully.  I'm not sure why so many people think armed homeowners are trying to have a "who can draw the fastest" contest.  It's not about that.  If it's in a drawer and I'm already confronted, I'm not going to tuck and roll across the floor to get it, duck behind a desk, then pop up and shoot my attacker.  Not realistic.  No one with a firearm should be thinking that way.  Secure your doors, get an alarm, a dog, and when time allows and you are able to pull it safely and be ready go for it.

There are just too many strong emotional feelings about topics like this.  At the end of the day it's personal choice, and simply having it causes no harm.  There are endless possibilities and situations that can happen.  It's impossible to debate people that are fundamentally against it (and I'm not saying anyone here is) because they will constantly be throwing scenarios at you and expecting you to tell them exactly what you would do in that situation.  It's a last resort option, to be used in a situation that you in good faith have reason to believe there is no alternative and bodily harm is imminent.  

There's a statistic that's been thrown around on the news in light of rapes, murders, kidnappings, etc. that says if your attacker is trying to do bodily harm or move you from one location to another, your chances of survival are much greater if you put up a fight than if you don't.  I don't intend to just lay limp and play dead if someone is trying to rape my wife.  

[PumpkinStalker]

Sorry for the thread hijack...can a mod move it here?

http://forum.kcrag.com/index.php?topic=13927.0

[jdubwaldo]

Another misconception.  I'm not testing my draw skills against anyone.  It's not the wild west.  If someone kicks in my door and my dog is barking, and I have time to fire a shot in the ceiling, that's my first option.  (Besides my alarm which is already sounding).  When they hear a gunshot, they'd be stupid to come up my stairs and test their luck.  

If someone's over me with a knife in the middle of the night and wants my wallet, again, I'll tell them where it is and cooperate fully.  I'm not sure why so many people think armed homeowners are trying to have a "who can draw the fastest" contest.  It's not about that.  If it's in a drawer and I'm already confronted, I'm not going to tuck and roll across the floor to get it, duck behind a desk, then pop up and shoot my attacker.  Not realistic.  No one with a firearm should be thinking that way.  Secure your doors, get an alarm, a dog, and when time allows and you are able to pull it safely and be ready go for it.

Great post.  I was laughing at my desk earlier picturing myself walking my 2 dogs in a shootout in the middle of my street in front of my house.  Or ducking behind my bed with night goggles on or something. 

It's totally a personal choice and preference and I like that people feel passionate about this, on both sides of the fence.

[LenexatoKCMO]

I would like to know what the percentages are on how often a home intruder is carrying.  I would think that if a lot of these deadbeats had a piece, they would have cashed it in at the pawn shop or with some other deadbeat for greenbacks.  I buy Shinatoos concern about not wanting to get involved in a quickdraw contest in your bedroom.  But I have heard plenty of stories about burglers turning tail and running after hearing the sound of the shotgun pumping at the top of the stairs.  

I guess my thought would be that if someone is brazen/drugged out/stupid enough to enter a house carrying a piece while someone is home, the odds are pretty low that they are going to just let you be when they find you regardless, so perhaps you are indeed better off in an armed face off.