Is America's suburban dream collapsing into a nightmare?

[Maitre D]

ahhhhh..ok.  makes sense...that sucks.

yet another reason why to buy in a place you don't enjoy...in case you are stuck with it and can't really get rid of it.

Well, I don't mind it actually.  It's nice, clean & safe neighborhood, plus I"m close to golf which I do each weekend.  I spend more time on the course that I do at nightclubs.


The Plaza is sweet but I've already listed the lack of reasonable living options there many times, so no need to re-hash.  Even Brookside was out of control price wise back in 2004.

[PumpkinStalker]

Careful MD, I've seen security get pretty rough out on the courses. 

[mean]

Having been around mostly suburbanite women, I rarely if ever hear them talk about DT or urban areas.

I'll give you a majority of mothers, but by and large the number of childless single or married professional women I know who prefer urban living are pretty much on par with men. And there is a huge upswing in married couples our age with kids who would live in the RCP but for what they usually describe as "urban problems" and, instead, move to downtown Lee's Summit or whatever to get the best of both worlds.

In my anecdotal experience, there's a relatively small number of younger (18-35) people who say, "Damn, I just love the suburbs!" That kind of attitude is a lot more prevalent in the older generations (see: nota, AKP, my parents) than it is in the most recent couple. When I talk to people about this, which is often, I regularly hear, "I would love to live [in Westport | on the Plaza | downtown] but [I can't afford it | I work out here | the schools suck]" from people my age, whereas people of previous generations are more liable to say something like, "Why on earth would I want to live in the city!?!?"

[KCPowercat]

M.D. loves the cougars....can't argue with that

[dangerboy]

When I talk to people about this, which is often, I regularly hear, "I would love to live [in Westport | on the Plaza | downtown] but [I can't afford it | I work out here | the schools suck]" from people my age, whereas people of previous generations are more liable to say something like, "Why on earth would I want to live in the city!?!?"

Exactly.  People after the baby boomers are able to picture themselves living in the city, even if they don't actually do it for whatever reason.  A lot of the older ones see it as completely foreign concept.  Living in the city might as well be like living on the moon.

[nota]

...plus I"m close to golf which I do each weekend.  I spend more time on the course that I do at nightclubs.

Where do you play? My favorite down south is Falcon Ridge.

[nota]

In my anecdotal experience, there's a relatively small number of younger (18-35) people who say, "Damn, I just love the suburbs!" That kind of attitude is a lot more prevalent in the older generations (see: nota, AKP, my parents) than it is in the most recent couple.

And in my anecdotal experience, we have always been outnumbered in the 'burbs by younger couples-some with kids, some DINKS. It's the same way here. There must be a reason.

When I talk to people about this, which is often, I regularly hear, "I would love to live [in Westport | on the Plaza | downtown] but [I can't afford it | I work out here | the schools suck]" from people my age, whereas people of previous generations are more liable to say something like, "Why on earth would I want to live in the city!?!?"

Granted, I might say exactly that. So might many people I know. And I really really mean it. There is just nothing in the city to attract me enough to live there. But I know several couples who have raised their kids, gotten them off the family "payroll" and moved to the city. None in KC, but I know some in Philly, some in Minneapolis, many in STL and probably more if I thought about it a bit.

[dangerboy]

Granted, I might say exactly that. So might many people I know. And I really really mean it. There is just nothing in the city to attract me enough to live there.

That's the point.  It is a gigantic generational shift that is happening.  Suburbia was born with the baby boomers and it looks like it might be dying with them.

[chrizow]

That's the point.  It is a gigantic generational shift that is happening.  Suburbia was born with the baby boomers and it looks like it might be dying with them.

i'm not sure suburbia is dying with the baby boomers.  rather, the cities died with the baby boomers, and their kids and grandkids are resurrecting the cities. 

[Maitre D]

In my anecdotal experience, there's a relatively small number of younger (18-35) people who say, "Damn, I just love the suburbs!"

I'd agree with that.

[NDTeve]

Where do you play? My favorite down OUT south is Falcon Ridge.

I always have to correct a guy from Chicago at our office that says this.

[ignatius]

The condo building I live in (Plaza/Westport) with over 140 units was mostly 60+ when I moved in.  It's getting younger now but there are still many sexagenarians+ who move in.  One 60+ couple said they love urban living (and hirise condo lifestyle) and regret not doing this lifestyle as soon as the kids left home.

A friend of mine in mid-60s who lives N of airport is seriously looking at condos in the city, every weekend now that his neighbor may buy his property.  If you look at the condo supply thread, condo supply is finally shrinking while home supply continues to grow.

It does surprise me that most singles in their 20s/30s at work (Crown Center) still live in the burbs, dealing with the commute.   They seem to like what the city offers but just can't seem to get out of the mold of what they were brought up in.  Some have moved to the city but most seem to not have an interest.  It does appear though that those who have an adventurous demeanor tend to be the ones who come into the city.  

[LenexatoKCMO]

It does surprise me that most singles in their 20s/30s at work (Crown Center) still live in the burbs, dealing with the commute.   They seem to like what the city offers but just can't seem to get out of the mold of what they were brought up in.  Some have moved to the city but most seem to not have an interest.  It does appear though that those who have an adventurous demeanor tend to be the ones who come into the city.  

As has been mentioned many times on here - we have little to no attractive rentals for these folks to move to, even if the desire is there.  You can get a nice, reasonably new apartment in the burbs for ~$600.  In the RCP, the stock is almost all way over or way under that range.  Twenty-something renters looking at the core are faced with a choice between either way funkier than they want or way swankier than they can afford.  Our DT may be becoming more attractive, but not so attractive that college grads are willing to live next to drug dens in apartments with no AC and eisenhower-era appliances. 

[kcmetro]

As has been mentioned many times on here - we have little to no attractive rentals for these folks to move to, even if the desire is there.  You can get a nice, reasonably new apartment in the burbs for ~$600.  In the RCP, the stock is almost all way over or way under that range.  Twenty-something renters looking at the core are faced with a choice between either way funkier than they want or way swankier than they can afford.  Our DT may be becoming more attractive, but not so attractive that college grads are willing to live next to drug dens in apartments with no AC and eisenhower-era appliances. 

This sums it up nicely.

[chrizow]

i don't think it's quite that black and white - particularly if people are willing to live with a roommate or significant other.  you can rent awesome houses and apartments in desirable areas of town for less than $1000.  a cursory review of craigslist reveals that you can rent lofts downtown for $700-800, houses in west plaza for $800-1000, apartments of infinite varation in midtown for $400-900, etc. 

kansas city is insanely affordable.  will you get a new beige townhouse for $250/bedroom like you could back in undergrad on the student ghetto fringes of lawrence or columbia?  no, but KC is cheap as shit and you can get some nice stuff if you look for it.  a friend of mine is renting a large (at least 1200 sq ft) apartment with a large balcony in westport for $600!  the neighborhood is somewhat dicey at times, but hey it's midtown.  you can still rent 1bedroom apartments on or near the plaza for less than $800.  a friend of mine is renting a nice 1-bedroom in a "poet's corner" area building for $600.

[nota]

I always have to correct a guy from Chicago at our office that says this.

Oh quit it!!!!

I'm from STL and it took forever for me to quit saying South County. 

[nota]

seems if you are living downtown and commuting out, at least your free time is with the fun stuff (bars, etc) instead of free time being spent next to a target strip center.

No personal attack here however "the fun stuff" is quite a thing of perception. Most of us who don't feel we need a barstool permanently attached to our backside enjoy the REAL fun stuff and the quality of life where we choose to live.

[Maitre D]

Where do you play? My favorite down south is Falcon Ridge.

The best course in KC Metro is Sycamore Ridge - out near Spring Hill (south of Olathe).   Golf Digest ranks it #1, the USGA scoring system ranks it #1, and so do I.   LOL!


I love Deer Creek's layout, but I get a lot of negative feedback from others who don't like it or say it's too tough.  (It's the toughest course in KC IMO).    I liked the old Ironhorse and am interested to see it come back.


Falcon is nice, and ranks just a shade behind those but ahead of the rest.

[KCPowercat]

no doubt, its up to each person..I relation to my comment to m.d. I was talking about what many in our age range consider the "fun stuff"...which includes more than just bars obviously.  just one example.

[nota]

That's the point.  It is a gigantic generational shift that is happening.  Suburbia was born with the baby boomers and it looks like it might be dying with them.

My parents and grandparents both chose to live in the burbs. I grew up in the burbs. My father was born in 1902 and my mother was born in 1926.