KCRag Forum

pittsburghparoyal wrote: It's really simple:  people in America use far, FAR more resources than those who live in other nations.  It's only logical to assume a family moving from Mexico to the USA will contribute far more greenhouse gas to the atmosphere than if they lived where they were from.

And in fact, the Sierra Club is almost evenly split on the issue.  I tell Sierra volunteers when they come hither, "You know, about population control...."

Yeah, I'll agree to some extent.  However, it's also an issue of wealth and culture.  Assuming the immigrant family is less wealthy then all the other American families they're coming in to, then they'd be less wasteful (until they gained wealth).

Wealth isn't everything, though.  American culture screams "consume!" and changing that will be the first step to reducing pollution.  But some people hear that and start talking about scary things, like job cuts (which probably would happen).

Throw out the stupid, hare-brained, arcane, draconian, moronic land use segregating Euclidean zoning laws, and we'd get a head start towards remediation with that alone.

Tosspot wrote: Throw out the stupid, hare-brained, arcane, draconian, moronic land use segregating Euclidean zoning laws, and we'd get a head start towards remediation with that alone.

You left out "clusterfuck"!!! 

kcmetro wrote: You left out "clusterfuck"!!! 

That too!

chrizow wrote: my point is that the US, perhaps more than almost any other country, has the technical know-how and expertise to become the most efficient superpower in the world...but we choose not to. 

I don't believe nor agree with that. Yes, maybe in the past, but not in 2007. The trouble is like you said yourself. We are lazy. You don't recycle anymore because you are lazy. I dont' recycle because it costs money. We just haven't been made to WORK towards it.

my point is that if the US pursued more efficient policies and habits, it wouldn't matter if a family from Mexico came to the US and polluted like an American - provided that "American" was a more efficient american.

population control is a great idea.  closing off the borders isn't the answer to our environmental problems, though.

 

And I disagree vehemently with open borders. Until our own poor are taken care of, we don't need to take any more illegals who suck our services while American children go hungry and have little or no medical care. Border states are tapped out providing for illegals. It isnt' that I don't want anyone to come to our country. I just want it to be orderly and absorbable. Meaning that I welcome as many as want to come here to live as long as they follow the immigration laws. I have no objection to changing/loosening the immigration laws. No guest worker programs unless it is the law passed by a vote of the people. Just follow the law. Even back in the days of Ellis Island, there were rules and laws. Both my paternal grandparents came here that way.

But, can we get back to the topic which is what can we do for Green.

nota wrote: But, can we get back to the topic which is what can we do for Green.

Bench his ass and play Huard.

nota wrote: But, can we get back to the topic which is what can we do for Green.

You could recycle despite the cost.  What are you looking for here?  You don't seem to be interested in altering you lifestyle by any of the suggestions.

I think we've been having turmoilish and vexing threads like this at a rate of at least once a week for it seems like forever now.

I always wonder whether I'm really helping the environment by driving 20 minutes (round trip) every two months to drop off glass at the recycling center in OP.

chrizow wrote: my point is that the US, perhaps more than almost any other country, has the technical know-how and expertise to become the most efficient superpower in the world...but we choose not to. 

my point is that if the US pursued more efficient policies and habits, it wouldn't matter if a family from Mexico came to the US and polluted like an American - provided that "American" was a more efficient american. 

population control is a great idea.  closing off the borders isn't the answer to our environmental problems, though.

How about we compromise then:  we cut off immigration until we develop technology sufficient to handle increasing population.

Then we turn it back on.  That way, we both win.  Do we have a deal, Chriz?

no one can guilt you into environmentalism. either you see the problem and adapt or you don't and continue to be part of the problem. it's not just something you do once a week when the garbage guy pops by and it's a hell of a lot more than light bulbs. know this for sure: if you don't act, the government will act for you because the problems are too obvious to ignore and too dire to put individual interests first. it's the next war on terror.

DaveKCMO wrote: no one can guilt you into environmentalism. either you see the problem and adapt or you don't and continue to be part of the problem. it's not just something you do once a week when the garbage guy pops by and it's a hell of a lot more than light bulbs. know this for sure: if you don't act, the government will act for you because the problems are too obvious to ignore and too dire to put individual interests first. it's the next war on terror.

Patriot Act part II: They'll have surveillence on us to make sure we throw our cans into the "Alluminum Cans Only" bin, etc....

pittsburghparoyal wrote: I'm in complete agreement with you.

Now, I'll ask you once again:  why is the USA allowing over 1M immigrants into the country if we're concerned with cutting down greenhouse gas production?  I just want to know how you justify that in your arguments.

I agree. We should encourage more abortions to reduce our emissions.

WTF? Nice try to throw a red herring into all of this.

I'm at a loss for words at the discussion that's going on. Wow, some people are stupid.

I'll just try to answer the question.

1. If you want to help the environment, the first step is to recognize that there's a problem.

2. Once you recognize there's a problem, look at what YOU can do to help, rather than looking at what other people are doing wrong to rationalize the things you do that are bad.

3. Move to the city where EVERYTHING is more efficient. You can walk to most things. You can use the heat that your neighbors' heaters are creating. You can more easily use public transportation. You generally have less space so that's less space to light, cool, heat, etc.

4. Replace your lights with compact fluorecent bulbs.

5. Turn your heat down in the winter and your A/C up in the summer. Or, better yet, open your windows.

6. Plug everything into power strips and when you're not using the things on that power strip, flip it off. Things like cell phone chargers use just as much power when there isn't a phone plugged in as when there is. TVs end up using more power when they're not on than when they are. I unplug everything or flip off the power strip when its not in use.

7. Buy local.

8. Only drive when you have to.

Nothing is using power when I'm not home (except my water heater because I can't turn it off and my DVR because it won't record anything if it's not on and that kind of defeats the purpose). I only keep my heat or A/C on in extreme temperatures because when I get home and it's 50 degrees in my apartment, it'll be on for quite some time, so I might as well leave it on.

The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them.

--Albert Einstein


There's your answer to the "Green" question. Have a nice night. 

kcmetro wrote: Bench his ass and play Huard.

That is something I CAN agree with.

lock+load wrote: You could recycle despite the cost.  What are you looking for here?  You don't seem to be interested in altering you lifestyle by any of the suggestions.

I started this thread by stating the things I've done to alter my own lifestyle. But this isnt' about me. There are others too. Most of the other posters aren't having such a hard time as you. You are still on the personal attack. This thread is about "We" and I'm interested in what you and others are, can, or will be doing for the environment. So far I've seen nothing from you except your tired old personal attacks. If you can't stay on topic, why are you in this thread?

Why does recycling cost money?  We have curbside recycling and a huge bin on wheels so all I do is wheel it out to the curb once a week.  It doesn't cost me personally anything (my taxes pay for the program, as well as garbage), so is it the cost to taxpayers you're talking about?  I have no idea what the cost is once it all arrives at the recycling center where it's sorted. 

I've found that turning on my efficient, gas fireplace all day keeps the furnace from running, heats the entire house fairly well (at least when the outside temp. is over 10 degrees or so) and my gas bill went down substantially. 

DanCa wrote: Why does recycling cost money?  We have curbside recycling and a huge bin on wheels so all I do is wheel it out to the curb once a week.  It doesn't cost me personally anything (my taxes pay for the program, as well as garbage), so is it the cost to taxpayers you're talking about?  I have no idea what the cost is once it all arrives at the recycling center where it's sorted. 

I've found that turning on my efficient, gas fireplace all day keeps the furnace from running, heats the entire house fairly well (at least when the outside temp. is over 10 degrees or so) and my gas bill went down substantially. 

It costs an extra $10 a month where I live to recycle which I would gladly pay, but I've heard and read that the costs to actually RECYCLE something cost more than it saves. At least for many things.

I don't live in KCMO. In our subdivision, we pay for our own trash and recycle. Not included in taxes or HOA $$$. If we lived on the other side of 45 Highway in Parkville, we could take our stuff to the recycle place in Parkville.

I love our gas fireplace. A few years back when we were without power for 4 1/2 days due to the ice storm, ours kept our entire house a warm and toasty 58 in the daytime and 50 at night. We ran it 24/7 for 4 1/2 days and our gas bill was actually lower that month than the previous one. We were surprised.