Cold Storage Lofts

[chrizow]

I moved to the RM in april and never got an I-walked-to-Harry's beer.

me too!

oh...wait....you've bought me like 8 beers....

[kard]

Me either.  And I've done it many times.  You owe me many!

me too!

oh...wait....you've bought me like 8 beers....

!!!!!!!!!

[scooterj]

staubio, i didn't know there was such a deal. I moved to the RM in april and never got an I-walked-to-Harry's beer.

Does it also apply retroactively to people who lived here before you?

[staubio]

I've really done it now.  You know guys, I'm like a cell phone company.  I don't care about you existing subscribers.  I just give the free stuff to the new people.

Fine, fine, line up an outing and all y'all can have a beer on me.  I need to see ID that proves you live in the Market.  Kard, you don't live in the market but I'll buy you a beer because I don't want to listen to you whine.   Scoot, I'll buy you two for being here much longer than me -- you get Chrizow's, who is a dirty freeloader.

[loftguy]

Didn't you know that Harry gives free beer to River Market residents who mention this forum?  He's a swell guy, that Harry.

[voltopt]

what about working in the river market, for years?

[deskside]

I must have been gone from KC too long because I couldn't for the life of me figure out what "Harry's" is.  I sure didn't remember a Harry's being in the River Market.  Looked it up on-line and I want in on the FREE BEER too!  That looks like a great spot and they have my Guinness.  And, it's definitely in walking distance of Cold Storage. 

[pearcejp]

They need to update the website already.  Several people have moved in as of today.  I thought they'd have pictures of the furnished models by now.  Not so.

[deskside]

They need to update the website already.  Several people have moved in as of today.  I thought they'd have pictures of the furnished models by now.  Not so.

I agree they do need to update the website.  Are you sure people were moving in?  Could be they were just moving their furniture in because as of tonight (Tuesday night) they were still waiting to get their temporary occupancy permit.

[briantsmith25]

I agree they do need to update the website.  Are you sure people were moving in?  Could be they were just moving their furniture in because as of tonight (Tuesday night) they were still waiting to get their temporary occupancy permit.

I received an e-mail this morning saying that they still have not recieved the occupancy permit. I have heard that they are moving some peoples stuff in and having to put them up in hotels.

[DaveKCMO]

I received an e-mail this morning saying that they still have not recieved the occupancy permit.

every new residential development discussed here has run into this exact problem, which leads me to believe:

a) the city process for obtaining the occupancy permit is too complex and/or screwed up
b) the developers are waiting until the last minute and missing obvious items needed to ensure safe occupancy

[briantsmith25]

every new residential development discussed here has run into this exact problem, which leads me to believe:

a) the city process for obtaining the occupancy permit is too complex and/or screwed up
b) the developers are waiting until the last minute and missing obvious items needed to ensure safe occupancy

I believe it is probaby option "a" they had people scheduled to move in on Jan 2nd.

[loftguy]

Yes, the system is screwed up.  Developers go thru the one to three year process of planning a development/redevelopment, meeting with the city and gaining approval for the project along the way.  Then the day comes that you are finishing up your development and along come the city codes inspectors to provide you with "final" inspections. 

It does not always happen, but literally most of the time, the inspector comes out and hands you a page, or pages of items that need to be "corrected" before you can receive your certificate of occupancy.  Sometimes the items listed out are real, and appropriate to be addressed.  Many, many times though, the list is filled with bullshit that is arbitrary and in some cases a completely bogus interpretation of the "gray areas" of codes. 

So, here's the worst-case, real life scenario: Picture yourself as a developer/contractor.  You are at the end of a project.  You have worked your tail off and the project is coming to completion. You have god-knows how many tenants ready and waiting to move into their new space.  You have spent (insert big $ here) and the clock is ticking.  You have had city inspectors visiting your project continuously through the process and you are just about there.  Then comes the big final inspection.  This may be an inspector who has never been to your development, and he goes though the development for a couple hours, or longer.  Then he hands you a page, or two, or three, or more with insufficiencies numbering 10 to 20 per page.  Some may be as simple as adding some caulk to a gap, but can be as outrageous as being told to replace every door to every exit stairway with "fire-gradient" (heats up slowly) doors (real life example here sportsfans).  No matter that the fire gradient doors will cost $600 each and take three weeks to obtain.  So, as a developer/contractor what do you do?  Well, you can raise hell and scream and shout and surprisingly discover that you now have a few more pages of deficiencies.  Really, what do you do?  You file an appeal and request a code variance, but gosh the board does not meet until next month.

What you do is to suck it up.  Play the game. Pay through the nose for overtime and rush delivery. Negotiate everywhere you can to get your project open and get people in.  And you curse a city process that is repeatedly abusive.  I have heard more developers and contractors say that they will never again work in the city of Kansas City because of this one piece of the puzzle. 

No, I don't know what is happening at Cold Storage to create delays, but I can imagine.

[staubio]

Yes, the system is screwed up.  Developers go thru the one to three year process of planning a development/redevelopment, meeting with the city and gaining approval for the project along the way.  Then the day comes that you are finishing up your development and along come the city codes inspectors to provide you with "final" inspections. 

It does not always happen, but literally most of the time, the inspector comes out and hands you a page, or pages of items that need to be "corrected" before you can receive your certificate of occupancy.  Sometimes the items listed out are real, and appropriate to be addressed.  Many, many times though, the list is filled with bullshit that is arbitrary and in some cases a completely bogus interpretation of the "gray areas" of codes. 

So, here's the worst-case, real life scenario: Picture yourself as a developer/contractor.  You are at the end of a project.  You have worked your tail off and the project is coming to completion. You have god-knows how many tenants ready and waiting to move into their new space.  You have spent (insert big $ here) and the clock is ticking.  You have had city inspectors visiting your project continuously through the process and you are just about there.  Then comes the big final inspection.  This may be an inspector who has never been to your development, and he goes though the development for a couple hours, or longer.  Then he hands you a page, or two, or three, or more with insufficiencies numbering 10 to 20 per page.  Some may be as simple as adding some caulk to a gap, but can be as outrageous as being told to replace every door to every exit stairway with "fire-gradient" (heats up slowly) doors (real life example here sportsfans).  No matter that the fire gradient doors will cost $600 each and take three weeks to obtain.  So, as a developer/contractor what do you do?  Well, you can raise hell and scream and shout and surprisingly discover that you now have a few more pages of deficiencies.  Really, what do you do?  You file an appeal and request a code variance, but gosh the board does not meet until next month.

What you do is to suck it up.  Play the game. Pay through the nose for overtime and rush delivery. Negotiate everywhere you can to get your project open and get people in.  And you curse a city process that is repeatedly abusive.  I have heard more developers and contractors say that they will never again work in the city of Kansas City because of this one piece of the puzzle. 

No, I don't know what is happening at Cold Storage to create delays, but I can imagine.

This is something that needs to be busted wide open and challenged.  We need to make this city attractive to developers.  Perhaps if the process was better, we wouldn't have to TIF everything.

[LenexatoKCMO]

It's the same sob story you will hear from contractors in every city in the country.  The process is there for a reason - would you rather find out after you move in that the place was wired dangerously or poorly plumbed?  Do you trust that your contractor won't try and get away with cutting corners?  Do you trust that your contractor is going to come back and install loftguy's fire gradient doors six weeks after you take posession if the law doesn't make him get it done up front?  I have lived in places where the code inspector apparently wasn't keeping a close enough eye on things and the contractors were left to their own devices- ever try and fix a leaky water line when there isn't a shut off valve? 

In addition - the timing issue more often than not has as much to do with the contractor as the city.  Is it the city's fault that the contractor is weeks overdue on the work necessary to finish a project?  Is it the city's fault that the contractor has rushed around to get everything done at the very last minute and left themselves no time to correct any difficiencies?  If you are a contractor who has blown your schedule and looking for an excuse to give your client, it is very easy to scapegoat the city when in reality you would have never had a problem if you had 1) stayed on schedule, and 2) allotted time to make corrections. 

[staubio]

It's the same sob story you will hear from contractors in every city in the country.  The process is there for a reason - would you rather find out after you move in that the place was wired dangerously or poorly plumbed?  Do you trust that your contractor won't try and get away with cutting corners?  Do you trust that your contractor is going to come back and install loftguy's fire gradient doors six weeks after you take posession if the law doesn't make him get it done up front?  I have lived in places where the code inspector apparently wasn't keeping a close enough eye on things and the contractors were left to their own devices- ever try and fix a leaky water line when there isn't a shut off valve? 

In addition - the timing issue more often than not has as much to do with the contractor as the city.  Is it the city's fault that the contractor is weeks overdue on the work necessary to finish a project?  Is it the city's fault that the contractor has rushed around to get everything done at the very last minute and left themselves no time to correct any difficiencies?  If you are a contractor who has blown your schedule and looking for an excuse to give your client, it is very easy to scapegoat the city when in reality you would have never had a problem if you had 1) stayed on schedule, and 2) allotted time to make corrections. 

I completely agree that the process is necessary and productive.  I just think it needs to be executed as efficiently as possible.  It should be a collaborative process, not a hostile one.  The city should be in the business of helping the building get to code, not seeming like a bad guy bent at shutting them down.  These are complicated projects and we want them to go well for all parties.

[loftguy]

It's the same sob story you will hear from contractors in every city in the country.  The process is there for a reason - would you rather find out after you move in that the place was wired dangerously or poorly plumbed?  Do you trust that your contractor won't try and get away with cutting corners?  Do you trust that your contractor is going to come back and install loftguy's fire gradient doors six weeks after you take posession if the law doesn't make him get it done up front?  I have lived in places where the code inspector apparently wasn't keeping a close enough eye on things and the contractors were left to their own devices- ever try and fix a leaky water line when there isn't a shut off valve? 

In addition - the timing issue more often than not has as much to do with the contractor as the city.  Is it the city's fault that the contractor is weeks overdue on the work necessary to finish a project?  Is it the city's fault that the contractor has rushed around to get everything done at the very last minute and left themselves no time to correct any difficiencies?  If you are a contractor who has blown your schedule and looking for an excuse to give your client, it is very easy to scapegoat the city when in reality you would have never had a problem if you had 1) stayed on schedule, and 2) allotted time to make corrections. 

Lenexator........either you are protecting your own turf or you have no clue what you are talking about.  My diatribe is directed towards unreasonable and arbitrary reading of codes in a way that makes the development process and delivery of product in Kansas City, Mo undependable.  In North Kansas City, or Overland Park, or pick your city, you can go thru the process and in final inspection all that comes up is areas of substandard workmanship or the occasional missed item.  Otherwise, in those cities if you are doing your job right they don't throw you a curve at the last moment.  You can depend on the process and anticipate the outcome.  Not so in KC.  Kansas City has the reputation for making this part of the routine and the routine is bad for the community........period!

This flaw in the process has the greatest affect on small entrepeneurs and small contractors, the people that we should most want to see developing in our city.  JE Dunn too,  gets slammed by this flawed process occasionally (childrens mercy, as example).  But JE Dunn is big enough to play the game.  The harm to them is minimalized by their structure and form.  They also have considerable political clout to combat the system as it stands, better than the little guy.

[tat2kc]

Not to nitpick, Loftguy, but the example you cited, about the need to have fire-gradient door on the stairways seemed to be a no-brainer to me. I mean, aren' t the stairways serving as emergency exits? Shouldn't the doors be able to slow down a fire? I always assumed that the doors were at least fire resistant. Is that an unreasonable assumption?

[deskside]

At first when I heard Cold Storage wasn't granted their occupancy permit my first thought was that they must not have used local contractors on the project....they're getting a hand slapping.  But now I think it probably just boils down to one inspector OKs everything and another one comes in and destroys the first inspector's assessment.  The parish I work for in Shawnee went through the same thing when they built their new church building and then added on a preschool.  One inspector would come in and OK it and the next would wipe out the first inspector's assessment.  Departmental politics is probably all this will boil down to.  All I know is that I do want a safe place to live.  But, with that said I'll be the person on Feb 1st standing next to the moving truck crying my eyes out if I can't get moved in after driving across the country to get home to KC......that free beer will come in handy about that time!

[loftguy]

Not to nitpick, Loftguy, but the example you cited, about the need to have fire-gradient door on the stairways seemed to be a no-brainer to me. I mean, aren' t the stairways serving as emergency exits? Shouldn't the doors be able to slow down a fire? I always assumed that the doors were at least fire resistant. Is that an unreasonable assumption?

tat.....this was just used as a real-life example of the marathon called final inspections.  In the case cited, there were 90 minute fire doors installed on all fire protected exits. The installed doors were the product historically required and used in such applications. What the inspector demanded was a new type of door, that heated up gradually over a 90 minute period, supposedly to keep firemen from burning their hands. (note: KC fire dept. officials thought this was nuts, the new door was a marginal improvement, but that the judgement by codes inspectors to force replacement was beyond reason).

My intent with this post is not to argue the specifics of this example.  It is to educate others regarding a part of our cities development system that is flawed.  Much has improved, under the leadership of Mayor Barnes and Wayne Cauthen, and the many hard working folks in city codes and permitting, but this piece of the puzzle is still a wild card the significantly impacts the growth of our city.  Again, I have had many, many contractors, entrepeneurs, developers share that they will never again work in the city of KC, due to this issue.