KCRag Forum

horizons82 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:30 am

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:32 am $68,000 is very close to the $15 minimum wage goal many have. It looks like $32/hour is enough for $1660 per month.

At 40 hours per week, you work a total of 2,080 hours per year. $15 x 2,080 = $31,200 gross. That’s less than half of $68,000, so a couple both working full time at $15/hr still wouldn’t qualify.

More importantly, as you hinted at but glossed over, $15 is not the standard now. The min wage is still stuck at $9.45 (thanks Jeff City!), only folks doing business with the city are guaranteed that $15 rate.

The fundamental idea is two contradictory ideas

1. that the floor for pay should be $15/hour
2. the ceiling for new construction rentals should be based off today's minimum wage

The better argument would be to use these situations as practical examples proving a higher minimum wage is needed and to expand that fight. New construction isn't getting cheaper so the fight over housing costs isn't going anywhere until income inequality becomes less extreme

The state minimum wage jumps to $10.30 in three days

Then $11.15 in 2022 and $12 in 2023.

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:26 am
The fundamental idea is two contradictory ideas

1. that the floor for pay should be $15/hour
2. the ceiling for new construction rentals should be based off today's minimum wage

The fundamental idea is that you create these strawman arguments that nobody is talking about.

My original argument is:

A) that Lucas’s criticism is consistent with his worldview which is based off the median KC household income. The proposed rents here are 100s of dollars north of that.
B) it was dumb politically of the developer to claim this is affordable/workforce in today’s world. Just make it market rate and be done with it.

Less than 2 blocks east of this townhome project a single family home just sold for $435,000.00. The success of Beacon Hill north of 27th is fueling rebirth of south Beacon Hill. This along with the Troost historic retail restoration including Disney between 31st and Linwood is causing immense interest in everything west of 71.

horizons82 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:47 am
B) it was dumb politically of the developer to claim this is affordable/workforce in today’s world. Just make it market rate and be done with it.

No, it wasn't. It's dumb politically to complain about any rate being lower when it's less than market rate.

When Target and Walmart raises their pay rate in the whole country the median income goes up a little. When the minimum wage in Missouri jumps in three days the median goes up a little more. And so on.

These increases allows EVERY landlord in the city to adjust their leasing rates up, including affordable housing, because 30% becomes a higher number

The nearby housing market will have their prices depressed by these units because they're forcing prices down for the very best middle tier units. Being new, it competes in the market with similar new units. So people looking at market rates might expect to pay less.

It sets a ceiling for older units, their new price ceiling is set by the rates of better units priced above. It's the same forces that says building a huge amount of premium housing helps people who need affordable housing by increasing price competition.

The next three years will see landlords raise rates when the minimum wage goes up each year, people need these forces in play.


It's why the minimum wage fight is absolutely tied to this point, and isn't a strawman, because if everyone's wage would go up to $15/hour the median shifts, landlords raise their rates, and every unit in the city will cost more to live in.

$1700 per month would be very affordable in the new higher market a minimum wage increase would create.


Affordable housing doesn't exist in a bubble, you have to look at market dynamics

moderne wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:08 pm Less than 2 blocks east of this townhome project a single family home just sold for $435,000.00. The success of Beacon Hill north of 27th is fueling rebirth of south Beacon Hill. This along with the Troost historic retail restoration including Disney between 31st and Linwood is causing immense interest in everything west of 71.

There's a home for sale two blocks from the project at $725k. Two blocks further north one not yet built at $615k. Two homes three blocks west are at $600k and one two blocks NW at $450k.

This neighorhood is on the edge of where the next round of townhomes in five years will rent for twice the price and people will look fondly at this proposal.

Amazing. Just amazing.

I found another interesting fact on this

Imagine a 2BR unit built in 2013 renting for about $1075. Not super affordable, but not crazy expensive.
Assume rent goes up 1:1 to construction costs for the sake of argument
The same unit in 2022, after some rough inflation numbers I found, would cost about $1700 to rent.

2013-2017: 5.5%
2018: 4.3%
2019: 3.6%
2020-22: 3%

The developer is taking a unit and charging 75% of market rate and accurately calls it affordable. People understandable go "no it's not"
People just don't understand that is affordable because they're separated from the real cost.

This is why we can't build ourselves into affordable housing, we need to build ourselves into a market rate glut so landlords need to lower their prices and push on costs.

Even with tax credits, it would take so many tax credits that we would have the school district complaining about the loss of income on every project.

We're better off not giving incentives and using the new property taxes to fund jobs programs, free transit and the like. Bring people making enough to afford market rate to live in the city to spend money on sales taxes at local shops that employ locals.

flyingember wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:53 pm
We're better off not giving incentives and using the new property taxes to fund jobs programs, free transit and the like. Bring people making enough to afford market rate to live in the city to spend money on sales taxes at local shops that employ locals.

If the development can't get off the ground with out them, then we have no funds to put into those programs.

alejandro46 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:57 pm

9 new Townhomes proposed for vacant lot near Wonder Lofts. 29th and Forest.
1,500- to 1,900 square feet, and rent for $1,695 to $1,995. Same dev as Wonder.
Probably will ask for incentives as no city sewer or water.

https://cityscenekc.com/affordable-town ... -corridor/

The plan for the construction of these townhomes has been uploaded to Compass:

https://compasskc.kcmo.org/EnerGov_Prod ... 4e3d96bcba

It seems like there hasn't been anymore discussion of the tax incentives for this project. Is the developer planning on not seeking incentives after the public blowback? Or perhaps this is just the first step before they make the official request.

Is there an Urban Renewal plan for the site? That would indicate if they are going for incentives or not.

Or maybe their purpose as the mayor's punching bag has been served and local twitter has moved on.

First townhouse for sale on Beacon Hill on Forest Avenue between 26th and 27th.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 3530-18383

This house is on Tracy Avenue south of E. 22nd Street in the new Mt. Hope development. It also has an apartment above the garage.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandho ... 4243-03854

https://uc-bproperties.com/property/224 ... -avenue-2/

https://mountprospectkc.com/

Cardinal Crest is planning multi-family for NW corner of 27th and Tracy. About a half dozen sfh either received or are awaiting permits on Forest Av from 25th to 27th.

daGOAT wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:39 pm Cardinal Crest is planning multi-family for NW corner of 27th and Tracy. About a half dozen sfh either received or are awaiting permits on Forest Av from 25th to 27th.

Location:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Live! ... -84.469576

FangKC wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:06 am

daGOAT wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:39 pm Cardinal Crest is planning multi-family for NW corner of 27th and Tracy. About a half dozen sfh either received or are awaiting permits on Forest Av from 25th to 27th.

Location:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Live! ... -84.469576

SFH's location:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Live! ... -84.469576

I think it's a mistake for SFHs on those blocks. It should have been zoned for more density. At least townhouses sharing firewalls, but sold as separate units on their own parcels.

Beacon Hill was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reintroduce urban density to central Kansas City--especially because of its' proximity to downtown and Hospital Hill employment center. It's been a failure in that respect, and it doesn't give me a lot of hope that leaders and developers in Kansas City have learned any lessons about how low density eventually harms revenue streams for the City.

FangKC wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:09 am

FangKC wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:06 am

daGOAT wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:39 pm Cardinal Crest is planning multi-family for NW corner of 27th and Tracy. About a half dozen sfh either received or are awaiting permits on Forest Av from 25th to 27th.

Location:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Live! ... -84.469576

SFH's location:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Live! ... -84.469576

I think it's a mistake for SFHs on those blocks. It should have been zoned for more density. At least townhouses sharing firewalls, but sold as separate units on their own parcels.

Beacon Hill was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reintroduce urban density to central Kansas City--especially because of its' proximity to downtown and Hospital Hill employment center. It's been a failure in that respect, and it doesn't give me a lot of hope that leaders and developers in Kansas City have learned any lessons about how low density eventually harms revenue streams for the City.

I agree rowhomes would have fit. One could argue the lot size and setbacks are more attune with Pre-WWII density but back than alot of multifamily was sprinkled in, even on back streets. At least the Craftsman style homes are interesting and I have to applaud the Colonnade replicas. We do have another opportunity surrounding 18V and maybe even Paseo West and the Forgotten Homes neighborhoods to rebuild more densely.

Mount Prospect seems to be doing a better job on the density of single family homes. Still detached single family, but packed tightly on small lots.

I just checked the prices there and was a little surprised. I thought it was going to be a more affordable version of Beacon Hill, with smaller lots and generally smaller homes. There are 7 homes currently with active listings - 6 of which are under contract. 5 of the 7 homes are over $625k, and they go up to $772k.

FangKC wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:09 am

FangKC wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:06 am

daGOAT wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:39 pm Cardinal Crest is planning multi-family for NW corner of 27th and Tracy. About a half dozen sfh either received or are awaiting permits on Forest Av from 25th to 27th.

Location:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Live! ... -84.469576

SFH's location:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Live! ... -84.469576

I think it's a mistake for SFHs on those blocks. It should have been zoned for more density. At least townhouses sharing firewalls, but sold as separate units on their own parcels.

Beacon Hill was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reintroduce urban density to central Kansas City--especially because of its' proximity to downtown and Hospital Hill employment center. It's been a failure in that respect, and it doesn't give me a lot of hope that leaders and developers in Kansas City have learned any lessons about how low density eventually harms revenue streams for the City.

I don't find Beacon Hill all that bad. It gives people looking for SFH's in the city some options. The homes are fairly tightly packed but the real problem for me there is the wasted space with the bizarre street patterns (like the islands in the streets). That is what drives the density down. It appears they are repeating the same island concept on Forest Street south of 25th and the plot of land between E Beacon Hill road and 25th looks too narrow to develop. There's a lot of wasted space along Paseo as well. Mount Prospect uses its available space much more wisely.

NW corner of 27th and Tracy had construction equipment out today.