Election 2008

[NDTeve]

I'd love to see the reaction if the shoe was the on the other foot. Probably not a non-issue in that case. But..it hasn't been because McCain has shown better judgment than to associate with people who hate America.

[phxcat]

But he was the most liberal member of the Senate. Scary thought. Especially considering some of the whacko's in the senate.

His voting record one year was rated as the most liberal.  Another year it was rated number ten.  This doesn't really show anything because it is constrained only to bills that came up for a vote in the Senate, and those bills that he voted for, and nothing truly radical is going to make it out of a Republican controlled committee.  Also, the sample size of senators- 45 or 50 Democrats- is too small to really rank over a couple of years from most liberal to most conservative.  To say that any Senator (except for Bernie Sanders) is a socialist is about as silly as calling any right wing senator a fascist.

[bobbyhawks]

First off, calling Obama a socialist makes about as much sense as calling Romney and anarchist.  Second, the label of Obama as the most "liberal" senator is misleading.  By the same ranking, which is incredibly flawed to begin with, he was 10th in 2006 and 16th in 2005.  We are also taking someone's (the National Journal's) word for what constitutes a liberal vote.  The same ranking is unable to place McCain because he didn't vote over half of the time.  The National Review's criteria has shifted over time based upon the Dem contenders.  If you want to point fingers here, perhaps McCain should have shown up more often.  Also, the differentiating votes that put Obama in 1st place (there were two differing votes between #1 Obama and #16 Clinton) included instances in which he sided with John McCain and Tom Coburn.

[phxcat]

no amount of debunking or fact-checking will stop the whiners, unfortunately.  it seems that, for them, the analysis begins and ends with an alarmist conservative blog post with no follow-up whatsoever.  i can understand wanting to know whether Obama has some sort of deep ties with the Weathermen, but it seems like any intelligent person could immediately discern that the issue is a complete non-starter.

I know, I just feel better about laying it out there and watching MD completely ignore it, only to rail about it again.

I'd love to see the reaction if the shoe was the on the other foot. Probably not a non-issue in that case. But..it hasn't been because McCain has shown better judgment than to associate with people who hate America.

Well, here is a picture of McCain hanging out with ACORN (although that is not an organization that hates America, many on the right would claim that it is)

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/ ... ml?showall

And he was hanging out with the other four members of the Keating Five, and he hung out with members of the anti-American by action, though not by word, United States Council for World Freedom, and of course Sarah Palin associated far more with the AIP (whose founder was far more virulent in his hatred of America than anyone before he was murdered in an explosives deal gone wrong, so the shoe is on the other foot and their doesn't seem to be much of a reaction, probably because in the long run it doesn't matter.

Now, as I said before, if you don't read the link, you have nothing to say about ayers.

[NDTeve]

Why are you so quick to disprove his reputation as "very liberal."? I would've thought many of the people on this board would be proud of that.

[chrizow]

Why are you so quick to disprove his reputation as "very liberal."? I would've thought many of the people on this board would be proud of that.

i think the onus is on you conservatives to justify the national review's criteria and conclusion that he is the "most liberal" member of the senate. 

[TheBigChuckbowski]

I'd love to see the reaction if the shoe was the on the other foot. Probably not a non-issue in that case. But..it hasn't been because McCain has shown better judgment than to associate with people who hate America.

McCain linked to private group in Iran-Contra casehttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081007/ap_ ... tXaqDMWM0F

McCain’s Zionist Mob Ties Suppressed By Major Media
http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/200 ... ed-by.html

These seem to be non-issues.

[bobbyhawks]

I think most "anti-liberalists" have forgotten what liberalism is exactly.  As people are so keen to view things in either/or scenarios, each era evolves a different perception of "liberalism."  Would any republicans afraid of the liberal left care to define the traits of a worst case scenario liberal?  (snarky comments about Obama excluded)

[NDTeve]

Two quotes that define liberals..

"The Liberal is continually angry, as only a self-important man can be, with his civilization, his culture, his country, and his folks back home. His is an infantile world-view. At the core of a Liberal is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic, and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats" - Patrick J. O'Rourke is a renowned American political satirist, journalist, and writer.

"Liberals are generous with other people's money, except when it comes to questions of national survival when they prefer to be generous with other people's freedom and security." - William F. Buckley Jr.

[ignatius]

Two quotes that define liberals..

"The Liberal is continually angry, as only a self-important man can be, with his civilization, his culture, his country, and his folks back home. His is an infantile world-view. At the core of a Liberal is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic, and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats" - Patrick J. O'Rourke is a renowned American political satirist, journalist, and writer.

"Liberals are generous with other people's money, except when it comes to questions of national survival when they prefer to be generous with other people's freedom and security." - William F. Buckley Jr.

Curious, both of those describe GWB perfectly.

[voltopt]

yes, it seems like the correct word in those quotes would be conservative, not liberal.

[Maitre D]

Two quotes that define liberals..

"The Liberal is continually angry, as only a self-important man can be, with his civilization, his culture, his country, and his folks back home. His is an infantile world-view. At the core of a Liberal is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic, and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats" - Patrick J. O'Rourke is a renowned American political satirist, journalist, and writer.

"Liberals are generous with other people's money, except when it comes to questions of national survival when they prefer to be generous with other people's freedom and security." - William F. Buckley Jr.

studies on happiness do bear that out....

[advocrat]

Do you Obama haters realize how idiotic your vitriol and bizarre labeling sounds? GOOD GOD!

Ok, I'm going to play "your" game for a minute, just to illustrate how nuts you all sound:

"Ya' know, 7 years in a Red Commie prison camp, exposed to torture and deprivation makes this guy a PRIME "manchurian candidate", planted by Reds and "Socialists" to follow his programming and be a Commie operative in the White House."

[jlbomega]

Two quotes that define liberals..

"The Liberal is continually angry, as only a self-important man can be, with his civilization, his culture, his country, and his folks back home. His is an infantile world-view. At the core of a Liberal is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic, and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats" - Patrick J. O'Rourke is a renowned American political satirist, journalist, and writer.

"Liberals are generous with other people's money, except when it comes to questions of national survival when they prefer to be generous with other people's freedom and security." - William F. Buckley Jr.

Curious, both of those describe GWB perfectly.

The second is fitting of "W" but the first one is pretty spot on about many liberals.

[bobbyhawks]

"The Liberal is continually angry, as only a self-important man can be, with his civilization, his culture, his country, and his folks back home. His is an infantile world-view. At the core of a Liberal is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic, and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats" - Patrick J. O'Rourke is a renowned American political satirist, journalist, and writer.

That's about as mean-spirited a comment as you could pull up.  Pretty impressive.  Watch some video of a McCain rally and tell me who is continually angry.  Infantile world view?  Spoiled children?  Where is the ideology there?  That is just a derogatory remark, not so much an indictment of a particular viewpoint.

[phxcat]

The second is fitting of "W" but the first one is pretty spot on about many liberals.

No, its really not.  At least not any more than it is about many conservatives.

[Jess]

I think that is irrelevant. That's a few outlandish people at a political rally where the object of disdain was not even present.  What we are discussing is simply a biproduct of a crass society, a general no-holds-barred display of disrespect and lack of civility towards anyone we disagree with.  That's fine if you don't mind our culture sliding further down that road, excuse it if you wish.  Just try to turn off your own partisanship for a moment to see my point.   

I'm not being partisan, I'm highlighting what others have already mentioned about basic decency being nonexistent.

[mean]

Two quotes that define liberals..

"The Liberal is continually angry, as only a self-important man can be, with his civilization, his culture, his country, and his folks back home. His is an infantile world-view. At the core of a Liberal is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic, and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats" - Patrick J. O'Rourke is a renowned American political satirist, journalist, and writer.

"Liberals are generous with other people's money, except when it comes to questions of national survival when they prefer to be generous with other people's freedom and security." - William F. Buckley Jr.

Oh darn those mean-spirited liberals calling you names!

[aknowledgeableperson]

When joking around with a few friends some sayings were generated.

A conservative is always for freedom of speech, except when it is applied to strippers.  After a few beers though, and in the right company, freedom of speech for strippers is allowed.  A liberal is also for freedom of speech but only if it is politically correct and/or agrees with their viewpoints.

A conservative would rather be dead than red.  A liberal would rather be red than dead.

A conservative plays with his rifle.  A liberal plays with his gun.

A conservative believes prays God and is afraid of damnation.  A liberal does not pray to God but says goddamnit.


There were a few others, just can't rmember them now.

[NDTeve]

When joking around with a few friends some sayings were generated.

A conservative is always for freedom of speech, except when it is applied to strippers.  After a few beers though, and in the right company, freedom of speech for strippers is allowed.  A liberal is also for freedom of speech but only if it is politically correct and/or agrees with their viewpoints.

A conservative would rather be dead than red.  A liberal would rather be red than dead.

A conservative plays with his rifle.  A liberal plays with his gun.

A conservative believes prays God and is afraid of damnation.  A liberal does not pray to God but says goddamnit.


There were a few others, just can't rmember them now.

Those are amazing