KCRag Forum

Highlander wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:53 am

moderne wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:12 am KCI 2nd fastest growing airport in airline seat capacity in US.

Shows what a little investment can do. But the ranking also is helped by KC being a much larger metro in rank relative to how busy its airport has been (31st largest metro with 44 busiest airport), so we are just making up for lost time.

Wonder the contributing factors. We haven't gained many flights yet.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:10 pm

Highlander wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:53 am

moderne wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:12 am KCI 2nd fastest growing airport in airline seat capacity in US.

Shows what a little investment can do. But the ranking also is helped by KC being a much larger metro in rank relative to how busy its airport has been (31st largest metro with 44 busiest airport), so we are just making up for lost time.

Wonder the contributing factors. We haven't gained many flights yet.

We have had numerous frequency increases on existing routes, airplanes upsized, and new routes added. Iirc July 2022 has more seats offered then July 2019.

Nice. Guess I was thinking these aren't new routes many times, they are reinstating pre pa demic routes. Still a great sign

There is no doubt the glass jetways are hot. Hotter than the old non glass? Maybe?

Highlander wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:53 am

moderne wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:12 am KCI 2nd fastest growing airport in airline seat capacity in US.

Shows what a little investment can do. But the ranking also is helped by KC being a much larger metro in rank relative to how busy its airport has been (31st largest metro with 44 busiest airport), so we are just making up for lost time.

Yes, we have a long ways to go too.

44th? It makes no sense for KC to have an airport that far out from the size of the market. KCI is a regional airport for massive market. It's not like the east or west coast or even other parts of the midwest where you have so many airports with overlapping markets. KC maybe the 31st largest metro, but I bet the KCI market is larger than say Cincy which has Dayton nearby. KCI is the primary airport for all of KS north of Wichita, up to St Joe, east to Columbia, south to Joplin etc.

I still say this is a direct result of decades of not improving the terminals, but I don't see any reason why KCI can't jump at least ten spots in flight ranking over the next 10-15 years.

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:58 pm 44th? It makes no sense for KC to have an airport that far out from the size of the market. KCI is a regional airport for massive market. It's not like the east or west coast or even other parts of the midwest where you have so many airports with overlapping markets. KC maybe the 31st largest metro, but I bet the KCI market is larger than say Cincy which has Dayton nearby. KCI is the primary airport for all of KS north of Wichita, up to St Joe, east to Columbia, south to Joplin etc.

I still say this is a direct result of decades of not improving the terminals, but I don't see any reason why KCI can't jump at least ten spots in flight ranking over the next 10-15 years.

I agree 100% on the negative impact of the old terminals. KCs geography may also hurt it just as much as it helps it.

langosta wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:04 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:58 pm 44th? It makes no sense for KC to have an airport that far out from the size of the market. KCI is a regional airport for massive market. It's not like the east or west coast or even other parts of the midwest where you have so many airports with overlapping markets. KC maybe the 31st largest metro, but I bet the KCI market is larger than say Cincy which has Dayton nearby. KCI is the primary airport for all of KS north of Wichita, up to St Joe, east to Columbia, south to Joplin etc.

I still say this is a direct result of decades of not improving the terminals, but I don't see any reason why KCI can't jump at least ten spots in flight ranking over the next 10-15 years.

I agree 100% on the negative impact of the old terminals. KCs geography may also hurt it just as much as it helps it.

Not sure how. Denver and SLC both have airports much larger than their markets and I would say they are in similar geography as KC (isolated).

I think it was 70% the terminals and 30% the lack of companies based in KC pushing for a better airport and more flights.

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:08 pm

langosta wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:04 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:58 pm 44th? It makes no sense for KC to have an airport that far out from the size of the market. KCI is a regional airport for massive market. It's not like the east or west coast or even other parts of the midwest where you have so many airports with overlapping markets. KC maybe the 31st largest metro, but I bet the KCI market is larger than say Cincy which has Dayton nearby. KCI is the primary airport for all of KS north of Wichita, up to St Joe, east to Columbia, south to Joplin etc.

I still say this is a direct result of decades of not improving the terminals, but I don't see any reason why KCI can't jump at least ten spots in flight ranking over the next 10-15 years.

I agree 100% on the negative impact of the old terminals. KCs geography may also hurt it just as much as it helps it.

Not sure how. Denver and SLC both have airports much larger than their markets and I would say they are in similar geography as KC (isolated).

I think it was 70% the terminals and 30% the lack of companies based in KC pushing for a better airport and more flights.

compared to some of those cities below KC in population but above in traffic, KC is pretty isolated.

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:08 pm

langosta wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:04 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:58 pm 44th? It makes no sense for KC to have an airport that far out from the size of the market. KCI is a regional airport for massive market. It's not like the east or west coast or even other parts of the midwest where you have so many airports with overlapping markets. KC maybe the 31st largest metro, but I bet the KCI market is larger than say Cincy which has Dayton nearby. KCI is the primary airport for all of KS north of Wichita, up to St Joe, east to Columbia, south to Joplin etc.

I still say this is a direct result of decades of not improving the terminals, but I don't see any reason why KCI can't jump at least ten spots in flight ranking over the next 10-15 years.

I agree 100% on the negative impact of the old terminals. KCs geography may also hurt it just as much as it helps it.

Not sure how. Denver and SLC both have airports much larger than their markets and I would say they are in similar geography as KC (isolated).

I think it was 70% the terminals and 30% the lack of companies based in KC pushing for a better airport and more flights.

Denver and SLC get a huge amount of winter sports traffic as they are the two major hubs of the US ski industry. Both probably get their share of summer tourist traffic too. KC is unlikely to get much regional tourist traffic although it has a large-unserved-by-a-major-airport hinterland.

I was surprised that Pittsburgh is the 28th largest metro in the US but has the 48th busiest airport. It's not like there is a nearby city to fly into? Not sure what's going on there.

Highlander wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:28 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:08 pm

langosta wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:04 pm
I agree 100% on the negative impact of the old terminals. KCs geography may also hurt it just as much as it helps it.

Not sure how. Denver and SLC both have airports much larger than their markets and I would say they are in similar geography as KC (isolated).

I think it was 70% the terminals and 30% the lack of companies based in KC pushing for a better airport and more flights.

Denver and SLC get a huge amount of winter sports traffic as they are the two major hubs of the US ski industry. Both probably get their share of summer tourist traffic too. KC is unlikely to get much regional tourist traffic although it has a large-unserved-by-a-major-airport hinterland.

I was surprised that Pittsburgh is the 28th largest metro in the US but has the 48th busiest airport. It's not like there is a nearby city to fly into? Not sure what's going on there.

KCI’s Hinterland airports have grown over the past decade. IMHO the lack of quality facilities played a major role and we also failed to develop as the connection point for the region that those airports feed into (STL took that spot).

Pittsburg is not a terribly far drive from NYC, PHL, DC, CLE, DET, Toronto, etc. ie. People are driving instead of flying. Yet, their airport CEO is one of if not the highest paid of all US airports. Leagues above any peer airports.

They also have a bunch of smaller airports in the area siphoning off traffic although those airports have suffered post COVID.
Latrobe (LBE) (33.4 miles), Morgantown (MGW) (55.5 miles), Dubois (DUJ) (77.6 miles) and Akron (CAK) (82.7 miles).

langosta wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:33 pm KCI’s Hinterland airports have grown over the past decade. IMHO the lack of quality facilities played a major role

I know nothing about airline discussion, but common sense tells me this was pretty much everything.

It prob was little airports like the JoCo and others just picking off flights because "well, the current one is basically just as much of a piece of shit so might as well go straight to JoCo" or Topeka or wherever

Right spirit wrong airports. Think Omaha , Des Moines, Wichita, Joplin, Manhattan, Columbia

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:08 pm

langosta wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:04 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:58 pm 44th? It makes no sense for KC to have an airport that far out from the size of the market. KCI is a regional airport for massive market. It's not like the east or west coast or even other parts of the midwest where you have so many airports with overlapping markets. KC maybe the 31st largest metro, but I bet the KCI market is larger than say Cincy which has Dayton nearby. KCI is the primary airport for all of KS north of Wichita, up to St Joe, east to Columbia, south to Joplin etc.

I still say this is a direct result of decades of not improving the terminals, but I don't see any reason why KCI can't jump at least ten spots in flight ranking over the next 10-15 years.

I agree 100% on the negative impact of the old terminals. KCs geography may also hurt it just as much as it helps it.

Not sure how. Denver and SLC both have airports much larger than their markets and I would say they are in similar geography as KC (isolated).

I think it was 70% the terminals and 30% the lack of companies based in KC pushing for a better airport and more flights.

Oh come on.



I’ll give you three guesses and the first two don’t count.

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:58 pm 44th? It makes no sense for KC to have an airport that far out from the size of the market. KCI is a regional airport for massive market. It's not like the east or west coast or even other parts of the midwest where you have so many airports with overlapping markets. KC maybe the 31st largest metro, but I bet the KCI market is larger than say Cincy which has Dayton nearby. KCI is the primary airport for all of KS north of Wichita, up to St Joe, east to Columbia, south to Joplin etc.

I still say this is a direct result of decades of not improving the terminals, but I don't see any reason why KCI can't jump at least ten spots in flight ranking over the next 10-15 years.

Keep in mind some markets have more than one airport

NYC has 3
Chicago, Dallas, Houston have 2 each
LA has a multiple in their market
Bay Area has 3
So 31 market and 44th airport probably is about right.

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:05 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:08 pm

langosta wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:04 pm
I agree 100% on the negative impact of the old terminals. KCs geography may also hurt it just as much as it helps it.

Not sure how. Denver and SLC both have airports much larger than their markets and I would say they are in similar geography as KC (isolated).

I think it was 70% the terminals and 30% the lack of companies based in KC pushing for a better airport and more flights.

Oh come on.



I’ll give you three guesses and the first two don’t count.

I'm not following you. I'm guessing you didn't like what I said though.

GRID wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:37 am

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:05 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:08 pm

Not sure how. Denver and SLC both have airports much larger than their markets and I would say they are in similar geography as KC (isolated).

I think it was 70% the terminals and 30% the lack of companies based in KC pushing for a better airport and more flights.

Oh come on.



I’ll give you three guesses and the first two don’t count.

I'm not following you. I'm guessing you didn't like what I said though.

They’re two hubs with significant local tourist destinations.

You can’t compare them to kc.

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:51 am

GRID wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:37 am

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:05 pm

Oh come on.



I’ll give you three guesses and the first two don’t count.

I'm not following you. I'm guessing you didn't like what I said though.

They’re two hubs with significant local tourist destinations.

You can’t compare them to kc.

KC could have been a mid continent hub tho. Grid isn’t the only local to point out the ride of those cities.

langosta wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:52 am

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:51 am

GRID wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:37 am

I'm not following you. I'm guessing you didn't like what I said though.

They’re two hubs with significant local tourist destinations.

You can’t compare them to kc.

KC could have been a mid continent hub tho. Grid isn’t the only local to point out the ride of those cities.

It seems like a fairly fruitless road of conservation if every time someone makes a post we have to litigate the past.

The point is made and accepted. Let’s for the love of god move on.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts and TWA hadn't moved to St. Louis and eventually been destroyed by Carl Icahn then maybe we'd be a TWA hub, but we're not, so we have to work with what we have. And there are disadvantages to being a hub. When Delta had a hub in Cincinnati, it had some of the highest fares in the country. Once it lost hub status, the airport suffered, but they've started to get service from LCCs and ULCCs like Allegiant, Frontier and Southwest.

Anyway, agreed, there's not much point to playing what-ifs about being a hub. We have what we have and we can grow based on that.