KCRag Forum

swid wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 11:29 am Going back to the other ongoing discussion of "what's going to happen to the empty lounge shell?", I dug through Compass and found some recent projects that *could* potentially be related to it.

A $1.65 million "Terminal Tenant Modifications KCI" project that last had activity on it in April is showing as cancelled; a smaller ($212,000) "MCI/KCI Tenant Bulletin 32" project has been active within the past week.

Bulletin 32 should be able to be tracked back to project documents somewhere but I can't remember if/where those were.

UA rumored about a potential club at MCI

Ugh. Isn't united like the least used major carrier at kci?

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 9:57 am Ugh. Isn't united like the least used major carrier at kci?

Yes but that position could change if they decided to add more flight.

The lounge space with the RFP is next to American’s gates. I don’t see it going to anyone but American or 3rd party.

langosta wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 10:36 am

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 9:57 am Ugh. Isn't united like the least used major carrier at kci?

Yes but that position could change if they decided to add more flight.

The lounge space with the RFP is next to American’s gates. I don’t see it going to anyone but American or 3rd party.

UA doesn't really do focus cities or P2P routes and placing it next to AA gates will be awkward and inconvenient. It "might" be useful in attracting airlines like Lufthansa and Copa but remember even New Orleans and San Antonio have United Clubs. New Orleans has/had Copa and Condor but San Antonio has no P2P or International service from UA or any SA carrier.

trexel94 wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 10:46 am

langosta wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 10:36 am

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 9:57 am Ugh. Isn't united like the least used major carrier at kci?

Yes but that position could change if they decided to add more flight.

The lounge space with the RFP is next to American’s gates. I don’t see it going to anyone but American or 3rd party.

UA doesn't really do focus cities or P2P routes and placing it next to AA gates will be awkward and inconvenient. It "might" be useful in attracting airlines like Lufthansa and Copa but remember even New Orleans and San Antonio have United Clubs. New Orleans has/had Copa and Condor but San Antonio has no P2P or International service from UA or any SA carrier.

Where would a UA club go that is convenient to UA passengers?

Fly into/out of the airport a few days ago and WOW. I am so so so so impressed by this project. While it's (a lot) smaller than I would have hoped for, the terminal is stunning an such an upgrade from the old one. Hopefully, this will help the city land some new routes/airlines!

Speaking of United. My god. They are just going nuts in Denver and I can't believe how big Southwest has gotten there as well.

United will have 90 gates at DEN and are adding 35 new flights this year.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... %20Airport.

I just don't get why KC can't get even a small portion of this type of attention now with the new terminal. But it really looks like that ship sort of sailed back about 10-15 years ago.

I still think that had the new terminal at MCI been built before DEN really took off, MCI would have become a major focus city for Southwest at the very least. I'm not sure the airlines have much interest in MCI for connecting traffic anymore. That might change over the next several years, but I don't see anything that indicates that might happen.

^^ And it’s really a terrible airport for passengers to connect in. The jet streams whipping over the mountains makes for massive turbulence. I’ve seen more passengers get sick flying into Denver than any other airport. The airlines could avoid the hassle by connecting East Coast flights in KC and save on jet fuel trying to land in a typhoon and just stay above it.

GRID wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:53 pm Speaking of United. My god. They are just going nuts in Denver and I can't believe how big Southwest has gotten there as well.

United will have 90 gates at DEN and are adding 35 new flights this year.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... %20Airport.

I just don't get why KC can't get even a small portion of this type of attention now with the new terminal. But it really looks like that ship sort of sailed back about 10-15 years ago.

I still think that had the new terminal at MCI been built before DEN really took off, MCI would have become a major focus city for Southwest at the very least. I'm not sure the airlines have much interest in MCI for connecting traffic anymore. That might change over the next several years, but I don't see anything that indicates that might happen.

The rise of Southwest at STL was based off of cheap and easy to add gates that provided a good enough experience. Shifting that traffic to KC is maybe the only real opportunity besides getting a JetBlue or Alaskan hub

If UA builds a Club at MCI please pardon my astonishment. KC has never been a United town, nor its constituent better half, Continental. We did have a large Eastern presence but at least half of Eastern ended up inside AA not UA. KC has always been an AA town, plus more recently, Southwest and Delta.

AA had an Admirals Club at MCI for decades. The fact that the bump-out by the lower A gates adjoins the AA area implies that someone in the KC Aviation Department talked to someone at AA DFW HQ about this. If UA now puts a club in that spot -- simply bizarre.

BTW what is with the absurdly priced wines by the glass at "Grain and Grape" just past security? It's hilarious that, after years of cheap plonk, the new airport is featuring wines by the glass, which with tax and tip total $50. Per Glass.

GRID wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:53 pm Speaking of United. My god. They are just going nuts in Denver and I can't believe how big Southwest has gotten there as well.

United will have 90 gates at DEN and are adding 35 new flights this year.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... %20Airport.

I just don't get why KC can't get even a small portion of this type of attention now with the new terminal. But it really looks like that ship sort of sailed back about 10-15 years ago.

I still think that had the new terminal at MCI been built before DEN really took off, MCI would have become a major focus city for Southwest at the very least. I'm not sure the airlines have much interest in MCI for connecting traffic anymore. That might change over the next several years, but I don't see anything that indicates that might happen.

Wouldn't UA be expected to add flights, to their hub?

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 11:51 am

GRID wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 7:53 pm Speaking of United. My god. They are just going nuts in Denver and I can't believe how big Southwest has gotten there as well.

United will have 90 gates at DEN and are adding 35 new flights this year.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... %20Airport.

I just don't get why KC can't get even a small portion of this type of attention now with the new terminal. But it really looks like that ship sort of sailed back about 10-15 years ago.

I still think that had the new terminal at MCI been built before DEN really took off, MCI would have become a major focus city for Southwest at the very least. I'm not sure the airlines have much interest in MCI for connecting traffic anymore. That might change over the next several years, but I don't see anything that indicates that might happen.

Wouldn't UA be expected to add flights, to their hub?

My point is how much DEN has snowballed since leaving Stapleton. They are so big now that adding flights is not really competition with other airlines, they just feed off each other. It's become a major world hub airport that is more about connecting flights than serving Denver residents. But Denver residents benefit from having so many flight options now.

Back when KC was dicking around with KCI and renovating the three terminals when they should have been building a new one, Southwest was not even serving Denver and barely had much going on in St Louis. Southwest wanted to make KCI a focus city but eventually gave up on KCI due to the terminals and customer not wanting to route through KCI. Now Denver is a major hub (I know they don't call them hubs) and StL has way more flights than KC I believe.

And UA has made Denver one of their biggest hubs when it didn't used to be. At the same time Southwest has nearly as many flights as UA there. Both of these airlines have more gates each than all of KCI's gates.

What I'm saying is that had KC not dragged their feet for so long on a new terminal, I honestly think KCI would be a major focus city for Southwest today and that would have also led to more flights from the legacy airlines. With so many flights in Denver and even St Louis now, it might be very difficult for KCI to recover from that lost time. It's possible though. It seems like KCI's new terminal would be perfect for Southwest to build up a major focus city, but we shall see.

agree with all of that. Really missed our opportunity there when we did that renovation.

rxlexi wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:00 am RE: MCI Solar Installation:

https://www.flatlandkc.org/news-issues/ ... rm-at-kci/

The plan has grown to 500 megawatts on 3,100 acres. The city has received a variety of proposals from five consortiums, including ideas for solar farms and the deployment of solar panels in other locations throughout Kansas City. The evaluation of these proposals is ongoing, with a recommendation expected to be made to the City Council by July 4.

The solar project is anticipated to generate revenue for the city through land leasing and is expected to be one of the largest solar arrays in the United States.

https://flatlandkc.org/news-issues/deta ... to-emerge/

Passed through New KCI last week for the first time. An excellent terminal, fantastic experience. My only note is that it should be 5 miles closer to the city.

smh wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:38 pm Passed through New KCI last week for the first time. An excellent terminal, fantastic experience. My only note is that it should be 5 miles closer to the city.

The main reason it should be five miles closer is so they could have designed everything from the ground up including all the road infrastructure leading to and from the terminal and making it much easier and more feasible to build transit to the the terminal.

That ship as sailed though. So next thing they really need to do is get a people mover installed to the RCF and economy parking lots. That and a proper bus line to downtown.

GRID wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 6:14 pm

smh wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:38 pm Passed through New KCI last week for the first time. An excellent terminal, fantastic experience. My only note is that it should be 5 miles closer to the city.

The main reason it should be five miles closer is so they could have designed everything from the ground up including all the road infrastructure leading to and from the terminal and making it much easier and more feasible to build transit to the the terminal.

That ship as sailed though. So next thing they really need to do is get a people mover installed to the RCF and economy parking lots. That and a proper bus line to downtown.

I would imagine APM is on hold while Lucas pursues rail to the airport

langosta wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 7:52 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 6:14 pm

smh wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:38 pm Passed through New KCI last week for the first time. An excellent terminal, fantastic experience. My only note is that it should be 5 miles closer to the city.

The main reason it should be five miles closer is so they could have designed everything from the ground up including all the road infrastructure leading to and from the terminal and making it much easier and more feasible to build transit to the the terminal.

That ship as sailed though. So next thing they really need to do is get a people mover installed to the RCF and economy parking lots. That and a proper bus line to downtown.

I would imagine APM is on hold while Lucas pursues rail to the airport

Occasionally the mayor's public statements are not in line with the work that is being done at a staff level

for instance Barney Allis

langosta wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 7:52 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 6:14 pm

smh wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:38 pm Passed through New KCI last week for the first time. An excellent terminal, fantastic experience. My only note is that it should be 5 miles closer to the city.

The main reason it should be five miles closer is so they could have designed everything from the ground up including all the road infrastructure leading to and from the terminal and making it much easier and more feasible to build transit to the the terminal.

That ship as sailed though. So next thing they really need to do is get a people mover installed to the RCF and economy parking lots. That and a proper bus line to downtown.

I would imagine APM is on hold while Lucas pursues rail to the airport

Pretty sure the APM is something the airport alone is pursing and it would be funded with airport generated fees/revenue. The airport will not be funding any part of a rail line to downtown. Why do you think most airports in the USA that do have rail connections are so poorly designed and integrated with the airport? It's just not in their best interest to do so. Parking revenue is a huge part of their revenue and even if rail did exist, it would likely only be used by less than 5% of KCI air travelers. So the ROI is not there for KCI.

Rail will be a city/state/federal funded project if it ever happens and it will be more for building up density in the I-29 corridor than serving KCI. Because LRT would have many stations and be used by many other travelers, it would take much longer to make a trip downtown via LRT (which would likely run at street grade) than a bus on the freeway going directly downtown.

The Lucas thing is a total pipedream, especially the timeline he is talking about. KC barely has a functioning bus system and a couple of miles of streetcar (soon to be a few more). Rail to KCI is just not happening for at least 30 years. Why is everybody so against having a decent airport express bus route in the mean time?

Could have something like this simply run up and down I-29 every 30 minutes to a River Market or Union Station streetcar connection.